I don't trust my hosting company

I may be missing something, but what is wrong with putting a knowledge
base article in your training manual. Aren't these things specific to
the software company so really you are doing them a service by
providing an easier way for users to access it...
 >> Stay informed about: I don't trust my hosting company 

hkcat1 DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote:
> I have sign up a 1 year contract with them. From the customer service
> and technical service I get. I feel they look into my files casually,
> for example they will report copyright violation to me that they found
> page 253 to 256 of my 400 pages company training menu (a password
> protected PDF) contains knowledge base article from Microsoft web site
> and tell me to remove it!
>
> What I do now is upload password protected rar files with 20 digits
> upper-case lower-case symbol numeric passwords with complete
> meaningless file name and I rename the extension. Is that safe enough?
>
> It is a pain for me to access my own files now, Is there a better way
> to protect my files from the hosting company? and at the same time I
> can access those files easily?

You might want to be happy your hosting company is on the ball about
issues like this. More then likely they were responding to a complaint
made by someone else and not just skimming though a 400 page document
looking for ways to harass you. We look at customers sites and do have
access to all their files, there have been times when we notice items
that don't meet our TOS, at which point we ask them to leave, or
perhaps to comply if it isn't to major.

Next time you agree to a one year contract, read the TOS and make sure
you can comply fully, and yes in many cases you can include articles
with permission which would have taken less time then creating this
thread.
 >> Stay informed about: I don't trust my hosting company 

William Tasso wrote:

> on the face of it, yes - but the o/p is silent on whether the host made
> this search on their own initiative or if they were prompted by the
> copyright holder.

On the face of it, the OP (anonymous, gmail, no posting history) is
wearing a tinfoil hat...

"My ISP breaks crypto on my PDFs to see if I'm breaching M$ecrets"
simply isn't credible, without further background.


For one thing - how may ISPs have geeks who can do this, are bored
enough to want to do this, yet care about _M$oft_ ?
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030305&mode=classic
 >> Stay informed about: I don't trust my hosting company 

MGW wrote:
>
> No, you aren't doing them a service. Placing a link to the
article, > so that users are directed to their website, is doing them
> a service.

i cant speak for microsoft, but my clients copy/paste information
from my website to create training manuals for their users. this
saves me and them a lot of money as I am not responsible for training
their users. The training they develop based off my doc's is great.
It's a win-win situation. I could care less if they source it or
pass it off as their own.

i would never host use any host that snoops around my files. when
you look at copyright infringement it only becomes an issue if the
guilty party is profitting off it. i dont see this is the case with
the OP.
 >> Stay informed about: I don't trust my hosting company 

<hkcat1.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155777315.889052.171800@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>I have sign up a 1 year contract with them. From the customer service
> and technical service I get. I feel they look into my files casually,
> for example they will report copyright violation to me that they found
> page 253 to 256 of my 400 pages company training menu (a password
> protected PDF) contains knowledge base article from Microsoft web site
> and tell me to remove it!
>
> What I do now is upload password protected rar files with 20 digits
> upper-case lower-case symbol numeric passwords with complete
> meaningless file name and I rename the extension. Is that safe enough?
>
> It is a pain for me to access my own files now, Is there a better way
> to protect my files from the hosting company? and at the same time I
> can access those files easily?

None of us like a ticking off, but in this case it sounds like your hosting
company is doing you a service and protecting you from prosecution for
copyright infringement.

If you need material from other people then obtain their permission first
and then show that permission to your hosting company. Otherwise stay inside
the law.

In answer to your last point, if you want a better way to protect your files
and yet keep them easily accessible: buy a small flash drive and keep your
files on that instead of hosting them. (This doesn't avoid your obligations
under copyright law, but if you instead kept a cached copy of the Microsoft
page you move into the grey area which is normally overlooked - but IANAL.)
--
Brian Cryer
www.cryer.co.uk/brian
 >> Stay informed about: I don't trust my hosting company 

Brian Cryer scribed:

><hkcat1.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1155777315.889052.171800@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>I have sign up a 1 year contract with them. From the customer service
>> and technical service I get. I feel they look into my files casually,
>> for example they will report copyright violation to me that they found
>> page 253 to 256 of my 400 pages company training menu (a password
>> protected PDF) contains knowledge base article from Microsoft web site
>> and tell me to remove it!
>>
>> What I do now is upload password protected rar files with 20 digits
>> upper-case lower-case symbol numeric passwords with complete
>> meaningless file name and I rename the extension. Is that safe enough?
>>
>> It is a pain for me to access my own files now, Is there a better way
>> to protect my files from the hosting company? and at the same time I
>> can access those files easily?
>
>None of us like a ticking off, but in this case it sounds like your hosting
>company is doing you a service and protecting you from prosecution for
>copyright infringement.
>
>If you need material from other people then obtain their permission first
>and then show that permission to your hosting company. Otherwise stay inside
>the law.
>
>In answer to your last point, if you want a better way to protect your files
>and yet keep them easily accessible: buy a small flash drive and keep your
>files on that instead of hosting them. (This doesn't avoid your obligations
>under copyright law, but if you instead kept a cached copy of the Microsoft
>page you move into the grey area which is normally overlooked - but IANAL.)

I fully agree with all the comments regarding the use of copyright
material. But, wasn't the OP's real question concerns his host accessing
and perusing his confidential files? Is that on par with your banker
looking through your safety deposit boxes?

--
Ed Jay (remove 'M' to respond by email)
 >> Stay informed about: I don't trust my hosting company 

On 17 Aug 2006 08:30:51 -0700, veg_all RemoveThis @yahoo.com scrawled:

> I may be missing something, but what is wrong with putting a knowledge
> base article in your training manual. Aren't these things specific to
> the software company so really you are doing them a service by
> providing an easier way for users to access it...

No, you aren't doing them a service. Placing a link to the article,
so that users are directed to their website, is doing them a service.
Alternatively, you can ask for permission to use it in your manual, in
which case you label it "Used with permission."

--
MGW (Note: my Hotmail address is seldom checked)
Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even
when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. - Douglas Hofstadter
 >> Stay informed about: I don't trust my hosting company 

On 17 Aug 2006 09:58:22 -0700, veg_all.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com scrawled:

> MGW wrote:
> >
> > No, you aren't doing them a service. Placing a link to the
> article, > so that users are directed to their website, is doing them
> > a service.
>
> i cant speak for microsoft, but my clients copy/paste information
> from my website to create training manuals for their users. this
> saves me and them a lot of money as I am not responsible for training
> their users. The training they develop based off my doc's is great.
> It's a win-win situation. I could care less if they source it or
> pass it off as their own.

But they have your permission. That's the difference. If you'd
quoted my entire post, you'd see that I mentioned that alternative
(i.e., getting permission before copying.) It's fine that you don't
care, but no one has the right to make that assumption without first
cheecking.

I have given many people permission to post my articles on their
websites, as long as I get to see them first and make sure they have
proper attribution. When I find someone using an article without
permission, I contact them to let them know that's not acceptable.

--
MGW (Note: my Hotmail address is seldom checked)
Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even
when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. - Douglas Hofstadter
 >> Stay informed about: I don't trust my hosting company 

Fleeing from the madness of the Posted via Supernews,
http://www.supernews.com jungle
Ed Jay <edMbj.DeleteThis@aes-intl.com> stumbled into news:alt.www.webmaster
and said:

> Brian Cryer scribed:
>
>> <hkcat1.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1155777315.889052.171800@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>> I have sign up a 1 year contract with them. From the customer service
>>> and technical service I get. I feel they look into my files casually,
>>> for example they will report copyright violation to me that they found
>>> page 253 to 256 of my 400 pages company training menu (a password
>>> protected PDF) contains knowledge base article from Microsoft web site
>>> and tell me to remove it!
>>>
>>> What I do now is upload password protected rar files with 20 digits
>>> upper-case lower-case symbol numeric passwords with complete
>>> meaningless file name and I rename the extension. Is that safe enough?
>>>
>>> It is a pain for me to access my own files now, Is there a better way
>>> to protect my files from the hosting company? and at the same time I
>>> can access those files easily?
>>
>> None of us like a ticking off, but in this case it sounds like your
>> hosting
>> company is doing you a service and protecting you from prosecution for
>> copyright infringement.
>>
>> If you need material from other people then obtain their permission
>> first
>> and then show that permission to your hosting company. Otherwise stay
>> inside
>> the law.
>>
>> In answer to your last point, if you want a better way to protect your
>> files
>> and yet keep them easily accessible: buy a small flash drive and keep
>> your
>> files on that instead of hosting them. (This doesn't avoid your
>> obligations
>> under copyright law, but if you instead kept a cached copy of the
>> Microsoft
>> page you move into the grey area which is normally overlooked - but
>> IANAL.)
>
> I fully agree with all the comments regarding the use of copyright
> material. But, wasn't the OP's real question concerns his host accessing
> and perusing his confidential files? Is that on par with your banker
> looking through your safety deposit boxes?

on the face of it, yes - but the o/p is silent on whether the host made
this search on their own initiative or if they were prompted by the
copyright holder.

--
William Tasso

http://williamtasso.com/words/what-is-usenet.asp
 >> Stay informed about: I don't trust my hosting company 

William Tasso scribed:

>Fleeing from the madness of the Posted via Supernews,
>http://www.supernews.com jungle
>Ed Jay <edMbj.RemoveThis@aes-intl.com> stumbled into news:alt.www.webmaster
>and said:
>
>> Brian Cryer scribed:
>>
>>> <hkcat1.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1155777315.889052.171800@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>> I have sign up a 1 year contract with them. From the customer service
>>>> and technical service I get. I feel they look into my files casually,
>>>> for example they will report copyright violation to me that they found
>>>> page 253 to 256 of my 400 pages company training menu (a password
>>>> protected PDF) contains knowledge base article from Microsoft web site
>>>> and tell me to remove it!
>>>>
>>>> What I do now is upload password protected rar files with 20 digits
>>>> upper-case lower-case symbol numeric passwords with complete
>>>> meaningless file name and I rename the extension. Is that safe enough?
>>>>
>>>> It is a pain for me to access my own files now, Is there a better way
>>>> to protect my files from the hosting company? and at the same time I
>>>> can access those files easily?
>>>
>>> None of us like a ticking off, but in this case it sounds like your
>>> hosting
>>> company is doing you a service and protecting you from prosecution for
>>> copyright infringement.
>>>
>>> If you need material from other people then obtain their permission
>>> first
>>> and then show that permission to your hosting company. Otherwise stay
>>> inside
>>> the law.
>>>
>>> In answer to your last point, if you want a better way to protect your
>>> files
>>> and yet keep them easily accessible: buy a small flash drive and keep
>>> your
>>> files on that instead of hosting them. (This doesn't avoid your
>>> obligations
>>> under copyright law, but if you instead kept a cached copy of the
>>> Microsoft
>>> page you move into the grey area which is normally overlooked - but
>>> IANAL.)
>>
>> I fully agree with all the comments regarding the use of copyright
>> material. But, wasn't the OP's real question concerns his host accessing
>> and perusing his confidential files? Is that on par with your banker
>> looking through your safety deposit boxes?
>
>on the face of it, yes - but the o/p is silent on whether the host made
>this search on their own initiative or if they were prompted by the
>copyright holder.

What difference should that make? If a vengeful creditor complains to the
ISP about one's debt, is the ISP allowed to examine whatever financial
records one has parked on one's site? I don't think so. I personally don't
think a host has a right to examine anything that isn't on a
publicly-accessible web site. If someone has a bitch about copyright
protection, or whatever, let them file a lawsuit and obtain a court order
seeking discovery. While a host may be liable for errant information made
public, they certainly have no right to delve into anyone's private files.

If the host's TOS allows them to access one's 'hidden' files, find another
host.
--
Ed Jay (remove 'M' to respond by email)
 >> Stay informed about: I don't trust my hosting company 

"Ed Jay" <edMbj.TakeThisOut@aes-intl.com> wrote in message
news:2ju8e2tph3u8b0cipb9enu64jj4vv6c0g3@4ax.com...
> Brian Cryer scribed:
>
>><hkcat1.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:1155777315.889052.171800@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>I have sign up a 1 year contract with them. From the customer service
>>> and technical service I get. I feel they look into my files casually,
>>> for example they will report copyright violation to me that they found
>>> page 253 to 256 of my 400 pages company training menu (a password
>>> protected PDF) contains knowledge base article from Microsoft web site
>>> and tell me to remove it!
>>>
>>> What I do now is upload password protected rar files with 20 digits
>>> upper-case lower-case symbol numeric passwords with complete
>>> meaningless file name and I rename the extension. Is that safe enough?
>>>
>>> It is a pain for me to access my own files now, Is there a better way
>>> to protect my files from the hosting company? and at the same time I
>>> can access those files easily?
>>
>>None of us like a ticking off, but in this case it sounds like your
>>hosting
>>company is doing you a service and protecting you from prosecution for
>>copyright infringement.
>>
>>If you need material from other people then obtain their permission first
>>and then show that permission to your hosting company. Otherwise stay
>>inside
>>the law.
>>
>>In answer to your last point, if you want a better way to protect your
>>files
>>and yet keep them easily accessible: buy a small flash drive and keep your
>>files on that instead of hosting them. (This doesn't avoid your
>>obligations
>>under copyright law, but if you instead kept a cached copy of the
>>Microsoft
>>page you move into the grey area which is normally overlooked - but
>>IANAL.)
>
> I fully agree with all the comments regarding the use of copyright
> material. But, wasn't the OP's real question concerns his host accessing
> and perusing his confidential files? Is that on par with your banker
> looking through your safety deposit boxes?

I do take your point (although it could be said that its more akin to having
your hand luggage scanned before you board a plane). Yes, I did focus on the
copyright issue and not the underlying question.

It would be interesting to know what the ISPs terms and conditions state on
this. After all, aren't ISPs potentially liable for the content of some of
the websites they host? so they may have something in their terms and
conditions that covers them. If they aren't covered by their Ts&Cs then I
wonder (pure speculation this) whether that would be grounds for the OP to
take them to court over it? I wonder who the host is, people quite often
mention their host when they are grumbling about them.
--
Brian Cryer
www.cryer.co.uk/brian
 >> Stay informed about: I don't trust my hosting company 

Brian Cryer scribed:

>"Ed Jay" <edMbj RemoveThis @aes-intl.com> wrote in message
>news:2ju8e2tph3u8b0cipb9enu64jj4vv6c0g3@4ax.com...
>> Brian Cryer scribed:
>>
>>><hkcat1 RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:1155777315.889052.171800@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>>I have sign up a 1 year contract with them. From the customer service
>>>> and technical service I get. I feel they look into my files casually,
>>>> for example they will report copyright violation to me that they found
>>>> page 253 to 256 of my 400 pages company training menu (a password
>>>> protected PDF) contains knowledge base article from Microsoft web site
>>>> and tell me to remove it!
>>>>
>>>> What I do now is upload password protected rar files with 20 digits
>>>> upper-case lower-case symbol numeric passwords with complete
>>>> meaningless file name and I rename the extension. Is that safe enough?
>>>>
>>>> It is a pain for me to access my own files now, Is there a better way
>>>> to protect my files from the hosting company? and at the same time I
>>>> can access those files easily?
>>>
>>>None of us like a ticking off, but in this case it sounds like your
>>>hosting
>>>company is doing you a service and protecting you from prosecution for
>>>copyright infringement.
>>>
>>>If you need material from other people then obtain their permission first
>>>and then show that permission to your hosting company. Otherwise stay
>>>inside
>>>the law.
>>>
>>>In answer to your last point, if you want a better way to protect your
>>>files
>>>and yet keep them easily accessible: buy a small flash drive and keep your
>>>files on that instead of hosting them. (This doesn't avoid your
>>>obligations
>>>under copyright law, but if you instead kept a cached copy of the
>>>Microsoft
>>>page you move into the grey area which is normally overlooked - but
>>>IANAL.)
>>
>> I fully agree with all the comments regarding the use of copyright
>> material. But, wasn't the OP's real question concerns his host accessing
>> and perusing his confidential files? Is that on par with your banker
>> looking through your safety deposit boxes?
>
>I do take your point (although it could be said that its more akin to having
>your hand luggage scanned before you board a plane).

Or having your ISP decide to look at your financial records?

>Yes, I did focus on the
>copyright issue and not the underlying question.
>
>It would be interesting to know what the ISPs terms and conditions state on
>this. After all, aren't ISPs potentially liable for the content of some of
>the websites they host? so they may have something in their terms and
>conditions that covers them. If they aren't covered by their Ts&Cs then I
>wonder (pure speculation this) whether that would be grounds for the OP to
>take them to court over it? I wonder who the host is, people quite often
>mention their host when they are grumbling about them.
--
Ed Jay (remove 'M' to respond by email)
 >> Stay informed about: I don't trust my hosting company 

Fleeing from the madness of the Posted via Supernews,
http://www.supernews.com jungle
Ed Jay <edMbj.RemoveThis@aes-intl.com> stumbled into news:alt.www.webmaster
and said:

> William Tasso scribed:
>
>> Fleeing from the madness of the Posted via Supernews,
>> http://www.supernews.com jungle
>> Ed Jay <edMbj.RemoveThis@aes-intl.com> stumbled into news:alt.www.webmaster
>> and said:
>>
>>> Brian Cryer scribed:
>>>
>>>> <hkcat1.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1155777315.889052.171800@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> I have sign up a 1 year contract with them. From the customer
>>>>> service
>>>>> and technical service I get. I feel they look into my files
>>>>> casually,
>>>>> for example they will report copyright violation to me that they
>>>>> found
>>>>> page 253 to 256 of my 400 pages company training menu (a password
>>>>> protected PDF) contains knowledge base article from Microsoft web
>>>>> site
>>>>> and tell me to remove it!
>>>>>
>>>>> What I do now is upload password protected rar files with 20 digits
>>>>> upper-case lower-case symbol numeric passwords with complete
>>>>> meaningless file name and I rename the extension. Is that safe
>>>>> enough?
>>>>>
>>>>> It is a pain for me to access my own files now, Is there a better way
>>>>> to protect my files from the hosting company? and at the same time I
>>>>> can access those files easily?
>>>>
>>>> None of us like a ticking off, but in this case it sounds like your
>>>> hosting
>>>> company is doing you a service and protecting you from prosecution for
>>>> copyright infringement.
>>>>
>>>> If you need material from other people then obtain their permission
>>>> first
>>>> and then show that permission to your hosting company. Otherwise stay
>>>> inside
>>>> the law.
>>>>
>>>> In answer to your last point, if you want a better way to protect your
>>>> files
>>>> and yet keep them easily accessible: buy a small flash drive and keep
>>>> your
>>>> files on that instead of hosting them. (This doesn't avoid your
>>>> obligations
>>>> under copyright law, but if you instead kept a cached copy of the
>>>> Microsoft
>>>> page you move into the grey area which is normally overlooked - but
>>>> IANAL.)
>>>
>>> I fully agree with all the comments regarding the use of copyright
>>> material. But, wasn't the OP's real question concerns his host
>>> accessing
>>> and perusing his confidential files? Is that on par with your banker
>>> looking through your safety deposit boxes?
>>
>> on the face of it, yes - but the o/p is silent on whether the host made
>> this search on their own initiative or if they were prompted by the
>> copyright holder.
>
> What difference should that make? If a vengeful creditor complains to the
> ISP about one's debt, is the ISP allowed to examine whatever financial
> records one has parked on one's site? I don't think so. I personally
> don't
> think a host has a right to examine anything that isn't on a
> publicly-accessible web site.

This /is/ the webmaster group and so far as I know we /are/ talking about
a publically accessible web site.

> If someone has a bitch about copyright
> protection, or whatever, let them file a lawsuit and obtain a court order
> seeking discovery.

Assumes the site ownership/contact details are clearly
displayed/available. In many cases it is simpler to contact the host
admin.

In my case the sop is to forward the complaint to the client for comment.
I've never had to get involved any further than that. Others may not have
been so fortunate and/or have a different view.

--
William Tasso

http://williamtasso.com/words/what-is-usenet.asp
 >> Stay informed about: I don't trust my hosting company