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External
Since: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 6
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 9:37 am
Post subject: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the right place?
Archived from groups: alt>www>webmaster (more info?)
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A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the right place?
I just completed a web log analyzer which is aimed to look
specifically at users finding your site on a SE. Determine which of
your target pages, files etc they reached.
My analyzer is using IP addresses and raw log data to identify unique
users. AFAIK most other software that tracks users will use cookies.
Both (and any possible) methods will have limited accuracy. I guess
you could do both to get maximum accuracy.
Sites that use cookies will not be able to track users who don't allow
the site to store a cookie. I certainly don't.
Using IP addresses means that only a single session will be tracked.
Also if a user changes IP address they will no longer be tracked. And
some users will get cached copies of pages before they need be
requested (and logged) on my server. For anything but a very popular
site I would expect that not to have a huge effect.
My questions are how common is it:
- to have cookies disabled - blocked
- for the IP for a user to change in a single session
- for a request to be resolved using a cached copy before the request
reaches my server.
Thanks for any answers,
David.
Software author.
Web Log Analyzer by Search Term
(http://www.1keytools.com/wlabstfeatures.htm)
Kybie GetEmAll - Make IE an offline browser
(http://www.1keytools.com/offline_browser.htm) |
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External
Since: Sep 19, 2003
Posts: 3499
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:01 pm
Post subject: Re: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the right place? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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david wrote:
> A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the right place?
Usually ok, but on Fridays the good ol' boys (and girls) at AWW like to get
down to some serious drunken frollickin'.
> ...
> My questions are how common is it:
>
> - to have cookies disabled - blocked
count = +1
> - for the IP for a user to change in a single session
count = count + 0
> - for a request to be resolved using a cached copy before the request
> reaches my server.
hopefully - depends on many factors <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.mnot.net/cache_docs/" target="_blank">http://www.mnot.net/cache_docs/</a>
Further research:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.google.com/search?q=cache+%22what+you+can%27t+know%22" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/search?q=cache+%22what+you+can%27t+know%22</a>
--
William Tasso - <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://WilliamTasso.com" target="_blank">http://WilliamTasso.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
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External
Since: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 50
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:24 am
Post subject: Re: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the right place? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 28 Nov 2003 06:37:50 -0800, david wrote:
> My analyzer is using IP addresses and raw log data to identify unique
> users. AFAIK most other software that tracks users will use cookies.
> Both (and any possible) methods will have limited accuracy. I guess
> you could do both to get maximum accuracy.
I use the log analyzer which AFAIK uses both -- Urchin.
> - to have cookies disabled - blocked
Very rare case. Only paranoids (or cretins) who think that cookies threaten
their privacy disable cookies.
> - for the IP for a user to change in a single session
Happens all the time, especially with users connecting via huge ISPs. They
can use different IP each time they request next page. Saw it myself many
times while using log analyzers.
> - for a request to be resolved using a cached copy before the request
> reaches my server.
It happens all the time too and saves a lot of traffic.
--
Igor Slyusar.
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.slyusar.com" target="_blank">http://www.slyusar.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the rig.. |
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External
Since: Aug 16, 2003
Posts: 79
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:24 am
Post subject: Re: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the right place? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Igor Slyusar" <me.TakeThisOut@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:mm4s3bjmon95.1tjwx1lh77i4z.dlg@40tude.net...
> On 28 Nov 2003 06:37:50 -0800, david wrote:
>
> > My analyzer is using IP addresses and raw log data to identify unique
> > users. AFAIK most other software that tracks users will use cookies.
> > Both (and any possible) methods will have limited accuracy. I guess
> > you could do both to get maximum accuracy.
>
> I use the log analyzer which AFAIK uses both -- Urchin.
>
> > - to have cookies disabled - blocked
>
> Very rare case. Only paranoids (or cretins) who think that cookies
threaten
> their privacy disable cookies.
<quote>
....And last year Amazon admitted varying product prices on its site by using
cookies on customers' PCs. First time visitors, or those who turned their
cookies off, would generally get bigger discounts than regular users of the
site...
</quote>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/18071.html" target="_blank">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/18071.html</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/13069.html" target="_blank">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/13069.html</a>
Perhaps you'd like to add a third type to your, er, sweeping generalisation?
;o)
--
"Whatever happens, Scotland's squad will be concentrating on getting their
second leg over successfully tonight."
(BBC Radio 4)
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.private-eye.co.uk" target="_blank">http://www.private-eye.co.uk</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the rig.. |
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External
Since: Jun 28, 2003
Posts: 1662
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:24 am
Post subject: Re: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the right place? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Makrobicz" <spambouncer RemoveThis @Makrobicz.com> wrote in message
news:bq8guf$1vrtqt$1@ID-177134.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "Whatever happens, Scotland's squad will be concentrating on getting their
> second leg over successfully tonight."
Either way, we got f*cked!
--
Charles Sweeney
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.CharlesSweeney.com" target="_blank">www.CharlesSweeney.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the rig.. |
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External
Since: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 133
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 4:03 am
Post subject: Re: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the right place? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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in post <news:bq7nqh$1vbv1d$1@ID-139074.news.uni-berlin.de>
William Tasso said:
>> My questions are how common is it:
>> - to have cookies disabled - blocked
> count = +1
+1
(and don't forget cookies allowed to be set and then immediately
deleted)
>> - for the IP for a user to change in a single session
> count = count + 0
+1
--
brucie<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the rig.. |
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External
Since: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 20
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 4:03 am
Post subject: Re: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the right place? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 14
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 4:03 am
Post subject: Re: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the right [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Sep 19, 2003
Posts: 3499
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 4:52 am
Post subject: Re: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the right place? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Makrobicz wrote:
> ...
> <quote>
> ...And last year Amazon admitted varying product prices on its site
> by using cookies on customers' PCs. First time visitors, or those who
> turned their cookies off, would generally get bigger discounts than
> regular users of the site...
> </quote>
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/18071.html</font" target="_blank">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/18071.html</font</a>>
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/13069.html</font" target="_blank">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/13069.html</font</a>>
> ...
Hey, what happened? Someone re-open the Auz gateway? That's two in one
day.
Hello Mak. You must be psychedelic - I was just gonna call (mail) you. I
need a brain to pick and yours got the short straw ;o)
--
William Tasso - <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://WilliamTasso.com" target="_blank">http://WilliamTasso.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the rig.. |
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External
Since: Aug 16, 2003
Posts: 79
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 5:44 am
Post subject: Re: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the right place? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"William Tasso" <SpamBlocked.RemoveThis@tbdata.com> wrote in message
news:bq8u09$213334$1@ID-139074.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Makrobicz wrote:
> > ...
<snip> > ...
>
> Hey, what happened? Someone re-open the Auz gateway? That's two in one
> day.
You mean my brother up in QLD?
> Hello Mak. You must be psychedelic
er, panasonic, psychedelic only when the sun's above the yard arm
> - I was just gonna call (mail) you. I
> need a brain to pick and yours got the short straw ;o)
>
Fire away mate.
--
"Whatever happens, Scotland's squad will be concentrating on getting their
second leg over successfully tonight."
(BBC Radio 4)
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.private-eye.co.uk" target="_blank">http://www.private-eye.co.uk</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the rig.. |
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External
Since: Aug 16, 2003
Posts: 79
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 5:47 am
Post subject: Re: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the right place? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Charles Sweeney" <me DeleteThis @charlessweeney.com> wrote in message
news:bq8h5k$1rp45d$1@ID-162618.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "Makrobicz" <spambouncer DeleteThis @Makrobicz.com> wrote in message
> news:bq8guf$1vrtqt$1@ID-177134.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> > "Whatever happens, Scotland's squad will be concentrating on getting
their
> > second leg over successfully tonight."
>
> Either way, we got f*cked!
pffft. Sweet link.
 )
--
"Whatever happens, Scotland's squad will be concentrating on getting their
second leg over successfully tonight."
(BBC Radio 4)
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.private-eye.co.uk" target="_blank">http://www.private-eye.co.uk</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the rig.. |
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External
Since: Apr 29, 2004
Posts: 1010
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:27 am
Post subject: Re: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the right place? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"david" <gohka.DeleteThis@eudoramail.com> wrote in message
news:8545b71e.0311280637.5516ea6e@posting.google.com...
> A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the right place?
>
> I just completed a web log analyzer which is aimed to look
> specifically at users finding your site on a SE. Determine which of
> your target pages, files etc they reached.
>
> My analyzer is using IP addresses and raw log data to identify unique
> users. AFAIK most other software that tracks users will use cookies.
>
> Both (and any possible) methods will have limited accuracy. I guess
> you could do both to get maximum accuracy.
>
> Sites that use cookies will not be able to track users who don't allow
> the site to store a cookie. I certainly don't.
>
> Using IP addresses means that only a single session will be tracked.
> Also if a user changes IP address they will no longer be tracked. And
> some users will get cached copies of pages before they need be
> requested (and logged) on my server. For anything but a very popular
> site I would expect that not to have a huge effect.
>
> My questions are how common is it:
>
> - to have cookies disabled - blocked
Many alleged Internet professionals appear to block
Most ordinary visitors (non Internet Professionals) Dont.
(reason? most users use browser out of the box!)
> - for the IP for a user to change in a single session
for most of us - not
For others like AOL users - all the time (AFAIK- at every request)
> - for a request to be resolved using a cached copy before the request
> reaches my server.
Depends on the users ISP
I have seen ISPs where no matter what you do to refresh, you still get their
cache and only option is to either go to another ISP or to wait for six
jours<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the rig.. |
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External
Since: Jun 29, 2003
Posts: 720
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 11:39 am
Post subject: Re: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the right place? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 28 Nov 2003 06:37:50 -0800 gohka.TakeThisOut@eudoramail.com (david) broke off
from drinking a cup of tea at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://groups.google.com" target="_blank">http://groups.google.com</a> to write:
>
>My questions are how common is it:
>
>- to have cookies disabled - blocked
I don't block them.
>- for the IP for a user to change in a single session
I thought AOL did this every request?
>- for a request to be resolved using a cached copy before the request
>reaches my server.
It would appear that 75% of requests for pages to our server are dealt
with by caches around the world (that is, for every one request our
server handles, three others go unnoticed).
Matt
--
Why 'phone a friend' when you can take the Probert Encyclopaedia
with you on your mobile phone!
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.mobipocket.com/en/eBooks/BookDetails.asp?BookID=4121&Origine=93" target="_blank">http://www.mobipocket.com/en/eBooks/BookDetails.asp?BookID=4121&Origine=93</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the rig.. |
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External
Since: Sep 19, 2003
Posts: 3499
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:06 pm
Post subject: Re: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the right place? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Matt Probert wrote:
> ...
> It would appear that 75% of requests for pages to our server are dealt
> with by caches around the world (that is, for every one request our
> server handles, three others go unnoticed).
That's nice, but how did you calculate 75% ?
--
William Tasso - <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://WilliamTasso.com" target="_blank">http://WilliamTasso.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the rig.. |
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External
Since: Nov 10, 2003
Posts: 272
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 2:05 pm
Post subject: Re: A rather techie question - not sure if this is not the right [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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