Apache appears to be serving up images slowly

P4-2.4ghz Dual XEON with hyperthreading - 1 gig ram. And excuse me but
there is no 'animated crap' as you so rudely put it. There is 1 small
flash logo (40k). The other images total about 100k and as I said,
everything had been working great. The page generation time has not
changed and is very respectable. There is very little JavaScript, not
JScript which is Microsoft's flavor, except for the expanding Forum
listings. Prior to posting this, I have turned that block completely
off (as well as all of them) and it matters not to the slow loading
images problem. I am not a noob nor a rookie (35 years in System's
Programming) and several years running LAMP servers and applications,
so please respond with professionalism or don't bother responding at
all. Now, can we get past your editorial and biased, innacurate
assessment of the problem and get back to the subject?

Thanks.


Davide Bianchi <davideyeahsure.RemoveThis@onlyforfun.net> wrote in message news:<slrnckg9gi.23q.davideyeahsure.RemoveThis@fogg.onlyforfun.net>...
 > On 2004-09-15, gf <gfraley5.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote:
  > > My server has been working for about a year an a half w/o any issues at all.
  > > Then, for no apparent reason (please note that I say apparent), images are
  > > slow loading and the browser hangs/times out.
 >
 > Your site appear quite slow, but mostly because there are dozens of
 > images, animated crap, JScript and so on, for the rest, it looks ok to
 > me. Since you gave no information whatsoever about what kind of
 > server you run it on, logs and the like, I can only think that is
 > a problem due to some images and/or your client/connection.
 >
 > Davide<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Apache appears to be serving up images slowly 

"gf" <gfraley5.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> schreef in bericht
news:AaV1d.796$0i5.333@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
 > My server has been working for about a year an a half w/o any issues at
all.
 > Then, for no apparent reason (please note that I say apparent), images are
 > slow loading and the browser hangs/times out. The page generation times
 > have not changed. It's just that now you can see the images referenced in
 > the browser status bar as they load much slower than they ever have.
For IE or FF to say 'Done' after hitting F5 takes a quiet reasonable 8 s
here: about 50 files for a total 430 kB downloaded via 2Mbps ADSL takes
about 2.2 s, adding 50 times a ping response of 110 ms totals to 7.7 s.

Re-hitting enter at the URLbar returns 'Done' in the blink of an eye, just
showing off the benifite of browser's chaching.

 > In
 > addition, the browser (IE, FF, Opera) will then hang, usually on the last
 > one but often times at the beginning too.
Hangupish behaviour has been seen where cookie acceptance popups were not
noticed as they did not steal focus ...

 > Eventually, most of the time, the hang releases.
 > Now for the kicker. If I hit refresh to try to reload and
 > get pass the hang, it usually hangs even earlier, and if I hit refresh
again
 > before the load has finished, I get a permanent hang and then no DNS
 > resolution!
Just to excluded some options: add your server to your /etc/host file

 > It's as if I have been temporarily 'banned'. The disconnect
 > lasts from 3 to 5 minutes and I cannot get to my server during these
times.
 > I can ping and tracert, but HTTP, SSH, and FTP will not connect.
Ping by name or IP; HTTP by IP may fail if you're on a named virtual.

HansH<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Apache appears to be serving up images slowly 

gf wrote:

 > P4-2.4ghz Dual XEON with hyperthreading - 1 gig ram. And excuse me but
 > there is no 'animated crap' as you so rudely put it. There is 1 small
 > flash logo (40k). The other images total about 100k and as I said,
 > everything had been working great. The page generation time has not
 > changed and is very respectable. There is very little JavaScript, not
 > JScript which is Microsoft's flavor, except for the expanding Forum
 > listings. Prior to posting this, I have turned that block completely
 > off (as well as all of them) and it matters not to the slow loading
 > images problem. I am not a noob nor a rookie (35 years in System's
 > Programming) and several years running LAMP servers and applications,
 > so please respond with professionalism or don't bother responding at
 > all. Now, can we get past your editorial and biased, innacurate
 > assessment of the problem and get back to the subject?
 >
 > Thanks.
 >
 >
 > Davide Bianchi <davideyeahsure DeleteThis @onlyforfun.net> wrote in message
 > news:<slrnckg9gi.23q.davideyeahsure DeleteThis @fogg.onlyforfun.net>...
  >> On 2004-09-15, gf <gfraley5 DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
   >> > My server has been working for about a year an a half w/o any issues at
   >> > all. Then, for no apparent reason (please note that I say apparent),
   >> > images are slow loading and the browser hangs/times out.
  >>
  >> Your site appear quite slow, but mostly because there are dozens of
  >> images, animated crap, JScript and so on, for the rest, it looks ok to
  >> me. Since you gave no information whatsoever about what kind of
  >> server you run it on, logs and the like, I can only think that is
  >> a problem due to some images and/or your client/connection.
  >>
  >> Davide

Works fine in Mozilla 1.4 under Mandrake Linux. The site responds quickly
and reloads ok too.
Eric<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Apache appears to be serving up images slowly 

gf said the following on 15/09/2004 12:53:

<snip>
 > before the load has finished, I get a permanent hang and then no DNS
 > resolution! It's as if I have been temporarily 'banned'. The disconnect
 > lasts from 3 to 5 minutes and I cannot get to my server during these times.
 > I can ping and tracert, but HTTP, SSH, and FTP will not connect.

Then it looks like a DNS related issue, not a problem with Apache. Check
if you can SSH and/or FTP to the box with providing an IP address.

<snip>
 > totally at a loss here. Any suggestions? If you have a chance, try to
 > replicate this behavior at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://ravenphpscripts.com" target="_blank">http://ravenphpscripts.com</a> . Thank you.

No problem here with Mozilla Firefox on Win2k.

--
Regards
Harrie<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Apache appears to be serving up images slowly 

gf said the following on 15/09/2004 20:13:

 > P4-2.4ghz Dual XEON with hyperthreading - 1 gig ram. And excuse me but
 > there is no 'animated crap' as you so rudely put it. There is 1 small
 > flash logo (40k). The other images total about 100k and as I said,

And an automitic scroll window called "Downloads". The page is quite big:


<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.websiteoptimization.com/services/analyze/wso.php?url=http://ravenphpscripts.com/" target="_blank">http://www.websiteoptimization.com/services/analyze/wso.php?url=http:/...venphps</a>

(or <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://tinyurl.com/5xbgk" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/5xbgk</a> if that link is to long for you)

BTW: the flash thing seems to be 24051 bytes.


 > everything had been working great. The page generation time has not
 > changed and is very respectable. There is very little JavaScript, not

23.18 seconds for a 56K modem is respectable?

 > JScript which is Microsoft's flavor, except for the expanding Forum
 > listings. Prior to posting this, I have turned that block completely
 > off (as well as all of them) and it matters not to the slow loading
 > images problem. I am not a noob nor a rookie (35 years in System's

It's not Apache related, but there are 1089 errors in your "main" page:


<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A//ravenphpscripts.com/" target="_blank">http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A//ravenphpscripts.com/</a>

(or <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://tinyurl.com/45wqh" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/45wqh</a>)

... and your CSS uses properties which don't exist:


<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css2&warning=2&uri=http%3A//ravenphpscripts.com/" target="_blank">http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css2&warning=2&ur...ttp%3A/</a>

(or <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://tinyurl.com/6ea4z" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/6ea4z</a>)

 > Programming) and several years running LAMP servers and applications,
 > so please respond with professionalism or don't bother responding at

Professionalism? Well, you can't be a professional on all subjects, but
your site doesn't look professional to me. Hmmm, maybe it does *look*
professional ..

 > all. Now, can we get past your editorial and biased, innacurate
 > assessment of the problem and get back to the subject?

I think you pissed him off by now, but then, I guess his comments
(although there are valid points in what he said) probably pissed you
off aswell.

--
Regards
Harrie<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Apache appears to be serving up images slowly 

"Harrie" <dinges_danges_donges DeleteThis @hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:414aebd6$0$78772$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
 > gf said the following on 15/09/2004 20:13:
  > > P4-2.4ghz Dual XEON with hyperthreading - 1 gig ram. And excuse me but
  > > there is no 'animated crap' as you so rudely put it. There is 1 small
  > > flash logo (40k). The other images total about 100k and as I said,
 > And an automitic scroll window called "Downloads". The page is quite big:
 >
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.websiteoptimization.com/services/analyze/wso.php?url=http://ravenphpscripts.com/" target="_blank">http://www.websiteoptimization.com/services/analyze/wso.php?url=http:/...venphps</a>
 > (or <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://tinyurl.com/5xbgk" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/5xbgk</a> if that link is to long for you)
 > BTW: the flash thing seems to be 24051 bytes.
  > > everything had been working great. The page generation time has not
  > > changed and is very respectable. There is very little JavaScript, not
 > 23.18 seconds for a 56K modem is respectable?
Is 56k the type of connection the average or intended audience uses?
Call yourself lucky the html page is deflated from 151k to about 19k, saving
about 23 seconds of download time. Given the deflated size of the page and
its style sheet the better part will show up in about 5 seconds.

 > It's not Apache related, but there are 1089 errors in your "main" page:
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A//ravenphpscripts.com/</font" target="_blank">http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A//ravenphpscripts.c...</fo</a>>
 > (or <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://tinyurl.com/45wqh" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/45wqh</a>)
Rules versus reallife ...
Though the type property on a script or style tag is mandatory by w3rule,
I've not seen a browser not assuming a poper default. Not to mention ruling
the alt property on img tags mandatory to please the users of text-only
browsers!


The margin* properties on the body tag are accepted by any current browser
known to me, but no longer acceptable by rule in an attempt make the
community migrate to CSS

 > .. and your CSS uses properties which don't exist:
 >
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css2&warning=2&uri=http%3A//ravenphpscripts.com/" target="_blank">http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css2&warning=2&ur...ttp%3A/</a>
 > (or <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://tinyurl.com/6ea4z" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/6ea4z</a>)
Most if not all errors reported on non-existant properties relate to
scrollbar settings. The w3.org just refuses to recognize these and other
M$-propriatary settings.

  > > Programming) and several years running LAMP servers and applications,
  > > so please respond with professionalism or don't bother responding at
 >
 > Professionalism? Well, you can't be a professional on all subjects, but
 > your site doesn't look professional to me.
Since 1998 for me [that is _not_ the OP] bending the rules has been the
[only] way to get the better cross-browser results. In short, real-life
often takes more than following rules and can do with less rules too.

HansH<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Apache appears to be serving up images slowly 

You ask "23.18 seconds for a 56K modem is respectable?"


It's .5 seconds on DSL and yes, that is respectable.

All those errors are not real life errors.

By Professionalism I am talking constructive responses. Not personal digs
and bad assumptions.




"Harrie" <dinges_danges_donges.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:414aebd6$0$78772$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
 > gf said the following on 15/09/2004 20:13:
 >
  >> P4-2.4ghz Dual XEON with hyperthreading - 1 gig ram. And excuse me but
  >> there is no 'animated crap' as you so rudely put it. There is 1 small
  >> flash logo (40k). The other images total about 100k and as I said,
 >
 > And an automitic scroll window called "Downloads". The page is quite big:
 >
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.websiteoptimization.com/services/analyze/wso.php?url=http://ravenphpscripts.com/</font" target="_blank">http://www.websiteoptimization.com/services/analyze/wso.php?url=http:/...venphps</a>>
 >
 > (or <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://tinyurl.com/5xbgk" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/5xbgk</a> if that link is to long for you)
 >
 > BTW: the flash thing seems to be 24051 bytes.
 >
 >
  >> everything had been working great. The page generation time has not
  >> changed and is very respectable. There is very little JavaScript, not
 >
 > 23.18 seconds for a 56K modem is respectable?
 >
  >> JScript which is Microsoft's flavor, except for the expanding Forum
  >> listings. Prior to posting this, I have turned that block completely
  >> off (as well as all of them) and it matters not to the slow loading
  >> images problem. I am not a noob nor a rookie (35 years in System's
 >
 > It's not Apache related, but there are 1089 errors in your "main" page:
 >
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A//ravenphpscripts.com/</font" target="_blank">http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A//ravenphpscripts.c...</fo</a>>
 >
 > (or <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://tinyurl.com/45wqh" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/45wqh</a>)
 >
 > .. and your CSS uses properties which don't exist:
 >
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css2&warning=2&uri=http%3A//ravenphpscripts.com/</font" target="_blank">http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css2&warning=2&ur...ttp%3A/</a>>
 >
 > (or <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://tinyurl.com/6ea4z" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/6ea4z</a>)
 >
  >> Programming) and several years running LAMP servers and applications,
  >> so please respond with professionalism or don't bother responding at
 >
 > Professionalism? Well, you can't be a professional on all subjects, but
 > your site doesn't look professional to me. Hmmm, maybe it does *look*
 > professional ..
 >
  >> all. Now, can we get past your editorial and biased, innacurate
  >> assessment of the problem and get back to the subject?
 >
 > I think you pissed him off by now, but then, I guess his comments
 > (although there are valid points in what he said) probably pissed you off
 > aswell.
 >
 > --
 > Regards
 > Harrie<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Apache appears to be serving up images slowly 

HansH said the following on 18/09/2004 00:55:

 > "Harrie" <dinges_danges_donges.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
 > news:414aebd6$0$78772$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
 >
  >>23.18 seconds for a 56K modem is respectable?
 >
 > Is 56k the type of connection the average or intended audience uses?
 > Call yourself lucky the html page is deflated from 151k to about 19k, saving
 > about 23 seconds of download time. Given the deflated size of the page and
 > its style sheet the better part will show up in about 5 seconds.

I don't know about the intended audience, but not everybody uses a
broadband connection, so 56K might be a safe bet.

If you examend the URL I posted more carefully, then you should have
seen that compression of code was already accounted for, so it'll still
takes 23 seconds.

  >>It's not Apache related, but there are 1089 errors in your "main" page:
  >>http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A//ravenphpscripts.com/
  >> (or <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://tinyurl.com/45wqh" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/45wqh</a>)
 >
 > Rules versus reallife ...
 > Though the type property on a script or style tag is mandatory by w3rule,
 > I've not seen a browser not assuming a poper default. Not to mention ruling
 > the alt property on img tags mandatory to please the users of text-only
 > browsers!

If you use VB you will need the type attribute IIRC. To depend on
assuming the browser will set things right for you is not really a good
thing.

You forget users of graphical browsers who choose not show images or
speech synthesizers.

 > The margin* properties on the body tag are accepted by any current browser
 > known to me, but no longer acceptable by rule in an attempt make the
 > community migrate to CSS

Then he should have choosed another doctype. Maybe HTML 3.2 is fine for
him ..

  >>.. and your CSS uses properties which don't exist:
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css2&warning=2&uri=http%3A//ravenphpscripts.com/</font" target="_blank">http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css2&warning=2&ur...ttp%3A/</a>>
 >
  >> (or <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://tinyurl.com/6ea4z" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/6ea4z</a>)
 >
 > Most if not all errors reported on non-existant properties relate to
 > scrollbar settings. The w3.org just refuses to recognize these and other
 > M$-propriatary settings.

Maybe because they are propriaty? And why the hell would I like to
decide for other people how *my* scrollbar should look like? The page is
yours, the browser is mine.

   >>>Programming) and several years running LAMP servers and applications,
   >>>so please respond with professionalism or don't bother responding at
  >>
  >>Professionalism? Well, you can't be a professional on all subjects, but
  >>your site doesn't look professional to me.
 >
 > Since 1998 for me [that is _not_ the OP] bending the rules has been the
 > [only] way to get the better cross-browser results. In short, real-life
 > often takes more than following rules and can do with less rules too.

I see yout point, but you are dependent on error recovery from browsers.
That doesn't realy strike me as professional (but then, you didn't use
that word).

Anyway, this is very off topic here, if you want to discuse this further
we should go to comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html or c.i.w.a.stylesheets.

--
Regards
Harrie<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Apache appears to be serving up images slowly 

gf said the following on 18/09/2004 06:45:

 > You ask "23.18 seconds for a 56K modem is respectable?"
 >
 > It's .5 seconds on DSL and yes, that is respectable.

It's *not* 0.5 seconds for DSL. You probably have cached most of that
page. And it's not fair to asume everybody has what you have, so a 56K
line might be a fair assumption.

 > All those errors are not real life errors.

Agreed, but when you say you have 35 years of experience, I'm just
asking if that's true for Apache and webpages. Say that you're 15 years
older than that, you have 50 years of life experience, but that says
nothing about other topics. I have a fair knowledge about UNIX systems,
but I consider myself a noob or rookie on a Windows platform.

 > By Professionalism I am talking constructive responses. Not personal digs
 > and bad assumptions.

I can't speak for Davide, but my critique was ment to be constructive.
You might want to change your website (optime the code, spread things
over more pages so the avarage page loads quicker) so other people will
enjoy it more.

--
Regards
Harrie<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Apache appears to be serving up images slowly 

The problem was XP SP2. rather than fill this up with the long story, visit
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://ravenphpscripts.com/article-546--0-0.html" target="_blank">http://ravenphpscripts.com/article-546--0-0.html</a> for the full details and,
of course, the fix. Thanks to all who replied!

--


"gf" <gfraley5.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:AaV1d.796$0i5.333@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
 > My server has been working for about a year an a half w/o any issues at
 > all. Then, for no apparent reason (please note that I say apparent),
 > images are slow loading and the browser hangs/times out. The page
 > generation times have not changed. It's just that now you can see the
 > images referenced in the browser status bar as they load much slower than
 > they ever have. In addition, the browser (IE, FF, Opera) will then hang,
 > usually on the last one but often times at the beginning too. Eventually,
 > most of the time, the hang releases. Now for the kicker. If I hit
 > refresh to try to reload and get pass the hang, it usually hangs even
 > earlier, and if I hit refresh again before the load has finished, I get a
 > permanent hang and then no DNS resolution! It's as if I have been
 > temporarily 'banned'. The disconnect lasts from 3 to 5 minutes and I
 > cannot get to my server during these times. I can ping and tracert, but
 > HTTP, SSH, and FTP will not connect. My host swears they have not
 > implemented any throttle or dDos type filters. I am totally at a loss
 > here. Any suggestions? If you have a chance, try to replicate this
 > behavior at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://ravenphpscripts.com" target="_blank">http://ravenphpscripts.com</a> . Thank you.
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Apache appears to be serving up images slowly