A Question About Becoming a Web Designer

"zzzz" <123> wrote in message news:PY-dnT9sNfsF8pWiU-KYvw@comcast.com...
 > Thank you for reading my post. I want to become a web designer/webmaster
 > and I was hoping someone could help steer me in the right direction. I
have
 > the Macromedia suite and I've purchased some CIW books but I don't know
the
 > smartest place to start. I requesting advice from experts/experienced to
 > avoid wasting time I want to work for myself if that helps any. Thanks in
 > advance for ANY input. Feel free to email me at willisboy2 RemoveThis @hotmail.com
 >
 >

Becoming CIW was my key to *helping* to overcome the fact that I had no
established work history in the job role.
But that didn't make much of a difference when ultimately I had no portfolio
(at the time) of previous projects.
Moreover, most people simply have no clue about how a website is made or
what the internet is all about - that includes the big web design firms
you'll run across.

The two bests thing you can do for yourself if you plan on being self
employed are these:
1) Pick one (or more) server side programming language and own it. I
recommend PHP, personally. The syntax is close enough to Perl that mastering
one will make learning the other easier. That, and you're not sucking the
teats of Satan by using it.
2) Pick up sales books by Joe Gerard, Brian Tracy, Zig Ziglar, and Jeffrey
Gitomer. People aren't just gonna come banging at your door as soon as you
pick up your business cards at the print shop. You have to sell yourself.


--
Karl Core

Charles Sweeney says my sig is fine as it is.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A Question About Becoming a Web Designer 

While shouting G-UNIT, zzzz wrote this:
 > Thank you for reading my post. I want to become a web
 > designer/webmaster and I was hoping someone could help steer me in
 > the right direction. I have the Macromedia suite and I've purchased
 > some CIW books but I don't know the smartest place to start. I
 > requesting advice from experts/experienced to avoid wasting time I
 > want to work for myself if that helps any. Thanks in advance for ANY
 > input. Feel free to email me at willisboy2 RemoveThis @hotmail.com

My answer might not answer you question, but any professional (from my
experience) will ALWAYS point you towards Google (www.google.com) for any
questions.

--
Sharif Tanvir Karim
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.onlyonxbox.net" target="_blank">http://www.onlyonxbox.net</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A Question About Becoming a Web Designer 

 > The one thing I always say to anybody wanting to become a web designer =
is
 > that this business is only 25% web design and 75% sales... atleast

Exactly.. well said.

Of course your technical skills will be important, but just be aware =
that you will spend most of your time doing things other than building =
web sites: sales, marketing, management, strategizing, accounting, =
dealing with hardware, software, and other equipment and supplies, etc.

You might enjoy my article "40 Things to Do During Your First Two Months =
in Business" on <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.webdevbiz.com." target="_blank">http://www.webdevbiz.com.</a>

Cheers,

--=20
P@tty Ayers
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.WebDevBiz.com" target="_blank">http://www.WebDevBiz.com</a>
Web Design Contract, Estimate Worksheet
--<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A Question About Becoming a Web Designer 

Hello...

There are many areas of website production, and you will need to
decide which are you want to focus on. There is a HUGE difference
between Web Programming and Web Design. Many Web Deigners actually
know very little about coding and many Web Programmers know little
about graphics. These two areas work in unison to create a great
website. Granted, they need to know the limits of each, but that's
where experience comes in.

I've been doing websites since the early days of Mosaic, so I've seen
lots of water under the bridge when it comes to website production...
and as most other responses to your email mention, if you do your own
web company, there's lots of business aspects you need to become
familiar with.

I personally work for a company as their 'Webmaster', though my forte
is programming and not design. Luckily we have a good Marketing
department that helps me in these areas But code-wise, I think I'm
proficient enough to do about anything.

But back to your question. Larger companies will generally have a
'Web Team' or the sort. These are the programmers and designers that
create the look and functionality of the site. You'll sometimes have
a Flash guy, a Photoshop wiz, someone familiar with multimedia (Real
Audio, Quicktime, etc), or whatever is needed by the company. Plus...
you'll have programmers to pull it all together. On the flip-side,
you have smaller companies (like the one I work for) that only have
one Webmaster that does it all. It gets kind of tedious in cases like
this, but this is IMO the funnest If you know your trait well,
this position has TONS of job security and you can really learn a lot.

If you decide to do it on your own... I'd suggest researching a
colocated server and going this route. You can setup your own server
and place it in someone elses datacenter, then you can write as many
websites as you want. I'm looking at doing this myself as a side
business. If you buy a decent server from EBay for say $500 and pay
$100/month for rack space, you can make-up your debt and fees in no
time with 5-6 $20/month clients. Even if you just offer hosting with
no programming, that's reasonable. Plus, I've seen many web
programmers charge $80-$150/hour for programming. My fees are closer
to $40-50 since enjoy it... but whatever you see fit. This can be
VERY profitable if you market yourself correctly.

Let me know if you have any other questions. I've about done it all
when it comes to this area

Take care, and good luck.

Keegan


"zzzz" <123> wrote in message news:<PY-dnT9sNfsF8pWiU-KYvw RemoveThis @comcast.com>...
 > Thank you for reading my post. I want to become a web designer/webmaster
 > and I was hoping someone could help steer me in the right direction. I have
 > the Macromedia suite and I've purchased some CIW books but I don't know the
 > smartest place to start. I requesting advice from experts/experienced to
 > avoid wasting time I want to work for myself if that helps any. Thanks in
 > advance for ANY input. Feel free to email me at willisboy2 RemoveThis @hotmail.com<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A Question About Becoming a Web Designer 

I just wanted to thank everyone who offered such quality input. It was
really more than I expected. I'm going to take everything under advisement
and for so who care, I'll keep you posted. I'm scheduled to take a
Dreamweaver class this week so I'll follow through with that. From there
I'll start focusing on HTML. I'm still curious as to when I should start
focusing on obtaining a CIW certification. I already have A+ and Network+,
although its been awhile ago. Any further input would be greatly
appreciated however, as I've already said, you all have already exceeded my
expectations.

Thanks again,
willisboy
"Augustus" <Imperial.Palace.RemoveThis@Rome.It> wrote in message
news:be9vd9$2nak4$1@ID-97594.news.dfncis.de...
 >
 > "zzzz" <123> wrote in message news:PY-dnT9sNfsF8pWiU-KYvw@comcast.com...
  > > Thank you for reading my post. I want to become a web
designer/webmaster
  > > and I was hoping someone could help steer me in the right direction. I
 > have
  > > the Macromedia suite and I've purchased some CIW books but I don't know
 > the
  > > smartest place to start. I requesting advice from experts/experienced
to
  > > avoid wasting time I want to work for myself if that helps any. Thanks
in
  > > advance for ANY input. Feel free to email me at willisboy2.RemoveThis@hotmail.com
 >
 > The one thing I always say to anybody wanting to become a web designer is
 > that this business is only 25% web design and 75% sales... atleast
 >
 > You can check around the net in various forums and newsgroups... you will
 > always find plenty of web designers who complain that there is a big IT
 > slump... they can't get work anywhere... that they shelled out $15,000 to
a
 > school to become a web developer and now they are working for
McDonald's...
 >
 > In almost every case, they approached this with the mentality of "I know
 > what I am doing... I will now build a portfolio page to show off what I
did
 > in school and then just sit back and the jobs will roll in!!!!!"
 >
 > That doesn't work... might lead to 1 or 2 jobs a year if you are lucky,
but
 > otherwise, if you just sit back and do nothing to promote yourself and
your
 > business you get plenty of that in return - nothing
 >
 > So you have to get out there... network, build up a contact list, network
 > some more, dole out business cards, make cold calls, advertise, market
 > yourself, and network even more...
 >
 > As for advice to help you avoid wasting time, I would just say:
 > Early on, concentrate on HTML and CSS... when you have that down, start to
 > learn a server-side language and database...
 > There is plenty to learn out there, but too many new designers come in
 > thinking that JavaScript and Flash should be their first priority, when in
 > reality it should be the last (this isn't to say I am against flash and
 > javascript... I think they both have their place, but they should be
 > secondary to good HTML, CSS and server side functionality)
 >
 > Thats my 2 cents...
 >
 > Clint
 >
 >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A Question About Becoming a Web Designer 

"zzzz" <123> wrote in message news:PY-dnT9sNfsF8pWiU-KYvw@comcast.com...
 > Thank you for reading my post. I want to become a web designer/webmaster
 > and I was hoping someone could help steer me in the right direction.

Don't!
If you become a web designer / webmaster you will end up with so little to
do that you will spend most of your time in this news group complaining that
you can't get any work because of all the bad designers out there who use
tables to build inaccesable websites and who do not use css yet somehow
manage to get all the work.

You might even end up with being known as an (under-employed) expert because
you have learnt how to make sites accessable, meet all w3c mark up standards
and do not use tables for layout - even though you have observed that the
web designers who seem to make all the money still use tables for layout
and build sites optimised for one or two browsers.



I have
 > the Macromedia suite and I've purchased some CIW books but I don't know
the
 > smartest place to start.
The smartest place to start is to find prospective customers who are willing
to pay you some money to build them a web site.



I requesting advice from experts/experienced to
 > avoid wasting time I want to work for myself if that helps any.
Personally I would steer clear of any experts you might find around here.
With the best of intentions they will fill your mind with all sorts of
notions about doing things the right way.

They will give you good advice,

about making sure your sites conform to as many standards as are applicable,

about how to make your site fall over 'gracefully' when a visitor has js and
/ or images turned off,

about how to use css and not to use tables for layout,

So of course, if you listen to them you will soon become an knowlegable
expert, able to pontificate in alt.www.w about how important all those
things are and join them in extolling the joy of doing things the 'right'
way while condeming the 90%+ of the web community that still blindly, and
perhaps in ignorance, continue to do things the 'wrong way'

However, if you do a bit of research first you may discover that while doing
things the right way will make your endevours efficient, doing the right
thing first will actually make your endevours effective. In this case, doing
the 'right thing' is as I have said above, finding people who are willing to
pay you money for what you do.
If they are willing to pay you money, if they are happy with the result and
if the result gives them the outcome they are looking for, HOW you did it
becomes almost totally irrelevant. To answer your question again, the best
place to start is to get out there and find customers!

<to prove a point>
I am not a designer yet a good chunk of my business comes from clients who
commision my company to develop websites. Because I couldn't design to save
my life I sub-contract the design stuff to (very) creative students, while I
concentrate on what I do well which is to make the sale! Guess who gets the
big slice of the cake?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A Question About Becoming a Web Designer 

Bill Logan wrote:
 > "zzzz" <123> wrote in message
 > news:PY-dnT9sNfsF8pWiU-KYvw@comcast.com...
  >> Thank you for reading my post. I want to become a web
  >> designer/webmaster and I was hoping someone could help steer me in
  >> the right direction.
 >
 > Don't!

Excellent advice

 >...
 > To answer your
 > question again, the best place to start is to get out there and find
 > customers!

More splendid advice.

 > <to prove a point>
 > I am not a designer yet a good chunk of my business comes from
 > clients who commision my company to develop websites. Because I
 > couldn't design to save my life I sub-contract the design stuff to
 > (very) creative students, while I concentrate on what I do well which
 > is to make the sale! Guess who gets the big slice of the cake?

all wrapped up with a helping of salutary advice.

I am not a designer either but I liked the jokes (snipped)
--
William Tasso - <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.WilliamTasso.com" target="_blank">http://www.WilliamTasso.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A Question About Becoming a Web Designer 

 > Don't!
 > If you become a web designer / webmaster you will end up with so =
little to
 > do that you will spend most of your time in this news group =
complaining that
 > you can't get any work because of all the bad designers out there who =
use
 > tables to build inaccesable websites and who do not use css yet =
somehow
 > manage to get all the work.
 >=20
 > You might even end up with being known as an (under-employed) expert =
because
 > you have learnt how to make sites accessable, meet all w3c mark up =
standards
 > and do ...

I'm not sure I understand why you're saying this. Since I started my web =
design business full-time three years ago, I have hardly had time to do =
anything else. ??

--=20
P@tty Ayers
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.WebDevBiz.com" target="_blank">http://www.WebDevBiz.com</a>
Web Design Contract, Estimate Worksheet
--<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A Question About Becoming a Web Designer 

Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of Bill
Logan of alt.www.webmaster make plain:

 > <to prove a point>
 > I am not a designer yet a good chunk of my business comes from clients
 > who commision my company to develop websites. Because I couldn't
 > design to save my life I sub-contract the design stuff to (very)
 > creative students, while I concentrate on what I do well which is to
 > make the sale! Guess who gets the big slice of the cake?

Um....the people doing the work?

--
Alan Little
Phorm PHP Form Processor
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.phorm.com/" target="_blank">http://www.phorm.com/</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A Question About Becoming a Web Designer 

"P@tty Ayers" <payers RemoveThis @NOSPAMnc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Yy5Oa.179804$nr.8245278@twister.southeast.rr.com...

 > Don't!
 > If you become a web designer / webmaster you will end up with so little to
 > do that you will spend most of your time in this news group complaining
that
 > you can't get any work because of all the bad designers out there who use
 > tables to build inaccesable websites and who do not use css yet somehow
 > manage to get all the work.
 >
 > You might even end up with being known as an (under-employed) expert
because
 > you have learnt how to make sites accessable, meet all w3c mark up
standards
 > and do ...

I'm not sure I understand why you're saying this. Since I started my web
design business full-time three years ago, I have hardly had time to do
anything else. ??

check the position of my tongue<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A Question About Becoming a Web Designer 

"Alan Little" <alan.TakeThisOut@n-o-s-p-a-m-phorm.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93B157FA35DF8alanphormcom@206.127.4.11...
 > Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of Bill
 > Logan of alt.www.webmaster make plain:
 >
  > > <to prove a point>
  > > I am not a designer yet a good chunk of my business comes from clients
  > > who commision my company to develop websites. Because I couldn't
  > > design to save my life I sub-contract the design stuff to (very)
  > > creative students, while I concentrate on what I do well which is to
  > > make the sale! Guess who gets the big slice of the cake?
 >
 > Um....the people doing the work?
 >
Don't be ridiculous!
The person who makes the investment and secures the resources and 'provides'
the work makes the money.

Those who do the work make wages<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A Question About Becoming a Web Designer 

 > I'm scheduled to take a
 > Dreamweaver class this week so I'll follow through with that.


If you decide you want to get certified in Dreamweaver MX after your
class, I'm going to put a practice Dreamweaver exam up at
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.learnbyheart.com" target="_blank">www.learnbyheart.com</a> in the next few days. The site is in beta, so
you'll be able to take the practice exam for free. It should help you
get an idea of whether you could pass the actual exam, which only cost
$100 and might help you stand out from the crowd a bit. For info on
the exam, go to <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.macromedia.com/support/training/certified_professional_program/dwmx_developer.html." target="_blank">http://www.macromedia.com/support/training/certified_professional_prog.../dwmx_d</a>

Good luck with your work. Web design and development is a competitive
field right now, but the work is fun if you can get it!

Nat
Founder
Webucator
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.webucator.com" target="_blank">http://www.webucator.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Nat Dunn" <ndunn219.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b3f7a6ce.0308011820.552a0664@posting.google.com...

 > Nat
 > Founder
 > Webucator
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.webucator.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.webucator.com</font</a>>

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webucator.com%2F&doctype=HTML+4.01+Transitional&charset=iso-8859-1+%28Western+Europe%29" target="_blank">http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webucator.com%2F&do...pe=HTML</a>

For $178 I will teach you how to fix that.

--
Karl Core

Charles Sweeney says my sig is fine as it is.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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