Newbie:What server side language to learn first?

Patrick wrote:
 > Now after having got some good feedback from posters here, i need to
 > learn a server side language. But which one?
 > What is out there, PHP (Isn't this one free?)

The majority of languages are free. PHP is easy to get in to, but has a
number of odd features.

 > ,ASP (I hear a lot of
 > good about it.Barnes & nobles book section is full of it.),

ASP isn't a language, its a way to embed various languages into a webpage.
Usually this means VBScript, although JScript and PerlScript are also
possible.

Its fairly heavily tied to Windows (especially the VBScript) and it isn't
free (although some versions of Windows come with a server that supports
it).

 > CGI (This
 > one is old stuff i have heard and outdated technologie.Not even sure
 > if it is a programming language.)

Not old, not outdated, but not very quick. Its a means by which a webserver
can execute a program (written in any language you choose, but usually
Perl) and return its output as a webpage.

 > Perl,

Powerful, common, free - but a little difficult to get into. Its my language
of choice for many things.

Can be used in CGI, but faster means exist (such as mod_perl).

 > Python?

I don't like Python, but many people love it, and it is said to be an
excellent beginners language. Again you have the choice of CGI or
mod_python, and it has lots of documentation.

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.python.org/" target="_blank">http://www.python.org/</a>

 > Is java serverside?

Java can run server side or client side - but it takes (compared to other
options) a lot of work (or money) to get a server capable of executing
server side Java.

--
David Dorward <http://dorward.me.uk/><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie:What server side language to learn first? 

"Patrick" <varois83 DeleteThis @netzero.net> wrote in message
news:a3530201.0401240904.543a62b4@posting.google.com...
 > Hi
 >
 > Guys i am a newbie with no experience building websites.I have of
 > course tried a few things here and there on free hosts but haven't
 > actually any work to show off at this time.
 > I have learned HTML, CSS and javascript.I am far from mastering these
 > 3 but i can do some stuff using them with of course my books next to
 > me.I can click "view" and then "source" while browsing the web and
 > figure out what is going on in the code at least half the time.
 > Now after having got some good feedback from posters here, i need to
 > learn a server side language.But which one?
 > What is out there, PHP (Isn't this one free?),ASP (I hear a lot of
 > good about it.Barnes & nobles book section is full of it.), CGI (This
 > one is old stuff i have heard and outdated technologie.Not even sure
 > if it is a programming language.), Perl, Python?
 > Is java serverside?
 > Which is easiest?Stuff close to C++ is for me a little hard and i know
 > java is derived from it.Not that i can't learn it, it's just a little
 > harder to me.
 > Anything else?

PHP
--
Charles Sweeney
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.CharlesSweeney.com" target="_blank">www.CharlesSweeney.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie:What server side language to learn first? 

If you want to do server-side stuff, you should learn about databases to
go along with your programming/scripting. PHP combined with mySQL
running on Apache is the killer trio. You can install all this on your
local machine and practice for a grand total of $0.00.

Despite all the free info on the net, I still like to buy tech books.
Two I'd recommend are:

1) PHP and MySQL Web Development by Luke Welling and Laura Thomson
(published by SAMS).

2) Web Database Applications with PHP and mySQL bu Hugh E. Williams and
David Lane (published By O'Reilly).
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie:What server side language to learn first? 

Patrick wrote:
 >...
 > I have learned HTML, CSS and javascript.I am far from mastering these
 > ...
 > Now after having got some good feedback from posters here, i need to
 > learn a server side language.But which one?

Whichever takes your fancy. The important skill to master is SQL. To
manage a SQL data source from a web page requires a server side scripting
language. The script is just a means to an end. Master the techniques and
the syntax is a doddle by comparison.

--
William Tasso - <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://WilliamTasso.com" target="_blank">http://WilliamTasso.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie:What server side language to learn first? 

Scott Bryce sbryce.DeleteThis@scottbryce.com wrote:
 > Normally I would recommend Perl, but given your background and
 > experience, there is probably something else that will be easier to learn.
 >
 > One of the reasons I like Perl is that is it so useful for things other
 > than CGI.
 >

it's also got the advantage of proven long term reliability...the jeep of
programming languages...it don;'t look pretty...it isn't the easiest to
drive, but of you don't know what the conditions are likely to be on the
way you can still be pretty sure you'll get there in one piece

I gather PHP is much easier to learn and is probably the best place to
start

I'd like to give a plug for both site architecture and general
marketing...both of which are skills under represented amongst web
designers and developers

--
eric
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ericjarvis.co.uk" target="_blank">www.ericjarvis.co.uk</a>
all these years I've waited for the revolution
and all we end up getting is spin<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie:What server side language to learn first? 

Patrick wrote:

 > Hi
 >
 > Guys i am a newbie with no experience building websites.I have of
 > course tried a few things here and there on free hosts but haven't
 > actually any work to show off at this time.
 > I have learned HTML, CSS and javascript.I am far from mastering these
 > 3 but i can do some stuff using them with of course my books next to
 > me.I can click "view" and then "source" while browsing the web and
 > figure out what is going on in the code at least half the time.
 > Now after having got some good feedback from posters here, i need to
 > learn a server side language.But which one?
 > What is out there, PHP (Isn't this one free?),ASP (I hear a lot of
 > good about it.Barnes & nobles book section is full of it.), CGI (This
 > one is old stuff i have heard and outdated technologie.Not even sure
 > if it is a programming language.), Perl, Python?
 > Is java serverside?
 > Which is easiest?Stuff close to C++ is for me a little hard and i know
 > java is derived from it.Not that i can't learn it, it's just a little
 > harder to me.
 > Anything else?
 >
 > Thanks so much
 >
 > Patrick

Perl, PHP, java server pages (jsp) ARE cgi.

You could try getting a cheap hosting account ($5/month or less) and try
out Perl & PHP, and see what you like. jsp is more convoluted.

I suggest PHP.

gtoomey<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie:What server side language to learn first? 

Gregory Toomey wrote:
 > You could try getting a cheap hosting account ($5/month or less) and try
 > out Perl & PHP,

Better yet, install Apache on your local machine and try everything for
free.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie:What server side language to learn first? 

Eric Jarvis <web DeleteThis @ericjarvis.co.uk> wrote in
news:MPG.1a7d3c69c806167f98c1e4@News.CIS.DFN.DE:

 > Scott Bryce sbryce DeleteThis @scottbryce.com wrote:
  >> Normally I would recommend Perl, but given your background and
  >> experience, there is probably something else that will be easier to
  >> learn.
  >>
  >> One of the reasons I like Perl is that is it so useful for things
  >> other than CGI.
  >>
 >
 > it's also got the advantage of proven long term reliability...the jeep
 > of programming languages...it don;'t look pretty...it isn't the
 > easiest to drive, but of you don't know what the conditions are likely
 > to be on the way you can still be pretty sure you'll get there in one
 > piece

Oh, I dunno about the 'isn't the easiest to drive and doesn't look
pretty' part... Once you've learned perl, you're pretty much able to do
anything for a web solution, barring fancy animations (and some may even
argue that with server push...

If you're (the OP) going to learn perl: Pick up "Learning Perl" from
O'Reilly & Associates. Start with the "Hello world" program and build
from there. It's a wonderful language and really doesn't get too cryptic
until you get into regular expressions (and even then, pick up "Mastering
Regular Expressions" from O'Reilly & Associates and it all starts to make
sense - and the power is well worth it)

Given the ease of using the DBI module for interfacing with MySQL (and
just about any other DB), you're rocking with perl

(I am, of course, completely biased, being a perl programmer, but I'm
also self-taught, so you don't need 4 years of university to benefit from
the language, either

 >
 > I gather PHP is much easier to learn and is probably the best place to
 > start
 >
 > I'd like to give a plug for both site architecture and general
 > marketing...both of which are skills under represented amongst web
 > designers and developers
 >



--
Marc Bissonnette
CGI / Database / Web Management Tools: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.internalysis.com" target="_blank">http://www.internalysis.com</a>
Something To Sell? Looking To Buy? <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.whitewaterclassifieds.ca" target="_blank">http://www.whitewaterclassifieds.ca</a>
Looking for a new ISP? <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.canadianisp.com" target="_blank">http://www.canadianisp.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie:What server side language to learn first? 

Marc Bissonnette dragnet.RemoveThis@internalysis.com wrote:
 > Eric Jarvis <web.RemoveThis@ericjarvis.co.uk> wrote in
 > news:MPG.1a7d3c69c806167f98c1e4@News.CIS.DFN.DE:
 >
  > > Scott Bryce sbryce.RemoveThis@scottbryce.com wrote:
   > >> Normally I would recommend Perl, but given your background and
   > >> experience, there is probably something else that will be easier to
   > >> learn.
   > >>
   > >> One of the reasons I like Perl is that is it so useful for things
   > >> other than CGI.
   > >>
  > >
  > > it's also got the advantage of proven long term reliability...the jeep
  > > of programming languages...it don;'t look pretty...it isn't the
  > > easiest to drive, but of you don't know what the conditions are likely
  > > to be on the way you can still be pretty sure you'll get there in one
  > > piece
 >
 > Oh, I dunno about the 'isn't the easiest to drive and doesn't look
 > pretty' part... Once you've learned perl, you're pretty much able to do
 > anything for a web solution, barring fancy animations (and some may even
 > argue that with server push...
 >
 > If you're (the OP) going to learn perl: Pick up "Learning Perl" from
 > O'Reilly & Associates. Start with the "Hello world" program and build
 > from there. It's a wonderful language and really doesn't get too cryptic
 > until you get into regular expressions (and even then, pick up "Mastering
 > Regular Expressions" from O'Reilly & Associates and it all starts to make
 > sense - and the power is well worth it)
 >
 > Given the ease of using the DBI module for interfacing with MySQL (and
 > just about any other DB), you're rocking with perl
 >
 > (I am, of course, completely biased, being a perl programmer, but I'm
 > also self-taught, so you don't need 4 years of university to benefit from
 > the language, either
 >

hell...I started on it when I had a deadline 8 hours away and a Perl
programmer who had gone missing leaving a bunch of stuff
unfinished...there are some superb tutorials and references on the
web...enough that I managed to finish the job with an hour to spare

and I'm not any kind of programmer

but I'm told by "those who know" that Perl isn't as pretty as some other
languages...so I'll take their word for it even though I love it myself

a Swedish mate tells me that when they set up the Swedish tax stuff on the
web they had a large development team using one of the funkier languages
and set a couple of guys building a back up system with Perl...the back up
was finished first, ran better, and is now the main system

--
eric
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ericjarvis.co.uk" target="_blank">www.ericjarvis.co.uk</a>
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie:What server side language to learn first? 

Gregory Toomey wrote:

 > Perl, PHP, java server pages (jsp) ARE cgi.

Bullshit. PHP /can/ be CGI, but in 99% of cases it isn't.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie:What server side language to learn first? 

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 09:36:15 +1100, David VB <davidvb.RemoveThis@notmydomain.com>
wrote:

 > Gregory Toomey wrote:
 >
  >> Perl, PHP, java server pages (jsp) ARE cgi.
 >
 > Bullshit. PHP /can/ be CGI, but in 99% of cases it isn't.

Heh, but I really don't think the OP cares what it is, as long as it's a
Pre-Processor

Grey

--
The technical axiom that nothing is impossible sinisterly implies the
pitfall corollory that nothing is ridiculous.
- <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.greywyvern.com" target="_blank">http://www.greywyvern.com</a> - ORCA - Camouflaged PHP Web Scripts.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie:What server side language to learn first? 

"David Dorward" <dorward RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:buugf2$50r$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...
 > Patrick wrote:
  > > Now after having got some good feedback from posters here, i need to
  > > learn a server side language. But which one?
  > > What is out there, PHP (Isn't this one free?)
 >
 > The majority of languages are free. PHP is easy to get in to, but has a
 > number of odd features.

Perhaps the oddest beiing its advantage over anything windows.

<runs away fast><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie:What server side language to learn first? 

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 11:45:15 +1300, Bill Logan <who.RemoveThis@what.com> wrote:

 >
 > "David Dorward" <dorward.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
 > news:buugf2$50r$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...
  >> Patrick wrote:
   >> > Now after having got some good feedback from posters here, i need to
   >> > learn a server side language. But which one?
   >> > What is out there, PHP (Isn't this one free?)
  >>
  >> The majority of languages are free. PHP is easy to get in to, but has a
  >> number of odd features.
 >
 > Perhaps the oddest beiing its advantage over anything windows.
 >
 > <runs away fast>

SSSHHHHHH! You want Karim to come back?!?

Grey

--
The technical axiom that nothing is impossible sinisterly implies the
pitfall corollory that nothing is ridiculous.
- <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.greywyvern.com" target="_blank">http://www.greywyvern.com</a> - ORCA - Camouflaged PHP Web Scripts.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie:What server side language to learn first?