Netscape is dead (officially)

Ben M wrote:
 > Yes it's true Netscape is going the way of the dodo.
 >
 > Mozilla will continue under the auspices of the mozilla foundation
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://mozilla.org/press/mozilla-foundation.html</font" target="_blank">http://mozilla.org/press/mozilla-foundation.html</font</a>>
 > note the improved home page design BTW.
 >
 > Any comments on the news?
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.benmeadowcroft.com/me/archive/2003/july.shtml#link16th_1</font" target="_blank">http://www.benmeadowcroft.com/me/archive/2003/july.shtml#link16th_1</font</a>>
 > (my take on the subject)

Where does that say Netscape has been formally abandoned? Not that
Netscape has shown any real signs of life for a while.
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 >> Stay informed about: Netscape is dead (officially) 

TechnoHippie wrote:
 > In article <bf2v70$dpo$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, cee.plus.TakeThisOut@virgin.net
 > says...
  >> Yes it's true Netscape is going the way of the dodo.
 >
 > They did it to themselves, bloating their apps and making their
 > browser java dependent. 7.1 was the slowest loading browser I've
 > ever used.

Yeah, Netscape ceased to give people good reasons to use it.
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 >> Stay informed about: Netscape is dead (officially) 

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:29:09 -0700, TechnoHippie <technohippie.TakeThisOut@comcast.net>
wrote:

 > In article <bf2v70$dpo$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, cee.plus.TakeThisOut@virgin.net
 > says...
  >> Yes it's true Netscape is going the way of the dodo.
 >
 > They did it to themselves, bloating their apps and making their browser
 > java dependent. 7.1 was the slowest loading browser I've ever used.
 >
  >> Mozilla will continue under the auspices of the mozilla foundation
<font color=green>  >> <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://mozilla.org/press/mozilla-foundation.html</font" target="_blank">http://mozilla.org/press/mozilla-foundation.html</font</a>>
  >> note the improved home page design BTW.
  >>
  >> Any comments on the news?
 >
 > I was using Moz 1.4 but found it slow, as well. When I switched over to
 > Firebird, my faith in Moz projects was restored. I'm not wild about
 > bundled software so I love the stand alone browser. I'm about to test
 > Thunderbird, the stand-alone email/news client that, according to the
 > site, plays best with Firebird. It will have a high bar to clear to beat
 > Calypso and Gravity.
 >
 > I don't know anything about the politics/culture of the Mozilla
 > Foundation but everybody seems to get alone really well in lizard land.

I don't know. I still like Opera.

Downloaded Firebird 0.6 today and found that it has an annoying bug when
divs are "position:fixed" as well as "visibility:hidden"; made more
annoying because I use exactly those styles on my own page! Go with
Firebird and scroll up and down --> <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.greywyvern.com" target="_blank">http://www.greywyvern.com</a> while
watching the menu. Eyuck.

This is also a bug in Moz1.4 and is apparently a regression since it worked
fine in 1.3. So I added my site to the list of examples in the bug ticket
for this item in Bugzilla. Then I closed FireBird and I don't plan on
opening it again.

I know it's bad of me to base my entire opinion of a browser on my first
impression, but this is my own site we're talking about! And no matter
how much Mozilla touts that their browser is the most standards compatible
browser out there, somehow it always seems to be Mozilla which causes me
compatibility headaches.

Grey

--
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pitfall corollory that nothing is ridiculous.
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 >> Stay informed about: Netscape is dead (officially) 

In article <oprsexa1i8gk3m3d.TakeThisOut@news.nas.net>,
sp_bhuisman.TakeThisOut@greywyvern.com_am says...
 > On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:29:09 -0700, TechnoHippie <technohippie.TakeThisOut@comcast.net>
 > wrote:
 >
  > > In article <bf2v70$dpo$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, cee.plus.TakeThisOut@virgin.net
  > > says...
   > >> Yes it's true Netscape is going the way of the dodo.
  > >
  > > They did it to themselves, bloating their apps and making their browser
  > > java dependent. 7.1 was the slowest loading browser I've ever used.
  > >
   > >> Mozilla will continue under the auspices of the mozilla foundation
<font color=brown>   > >> <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://mozilla.org/press/mozilla-foundation.html</font" target="_blank">http://mozilla.org/press/mozilla-foundation.html</font</a>>
   > >> note the improved home page design BTW.
   > >>
   > >> Any comments on the news?
  > >
  > > I was using Moz 1.4 but found it slow, as well. When I switched over to
  > > Firebird, my faith in Moz projects was restored. I'm not wild about
  > > bundled software so I love the stand alone browser. I'm about to test
  > > Thunderbird, the stand-alone email/news client that, according to the
  > > site, plays best with Firebird. It will have a high bar to clear to beat
  > > Calypso and Gravity.
  > >
  > > I don't know anything about the politics/culture of the Mozilla
  > > Foundation but everybody seems to get alone really well in lizard land.
 >
 > I don't know. I still like Opera.
 >
 > Downloaded Firebird 0.6 today and found that it has an annoying bug when
 > divs are "position:fixed" as well as "visibility:hidden"; made more
 > annoying because I use exactly those styles on my own page! Go with
 > Firebird and scroll up and down --> <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.greywyvern.com" target="_blank">http://www.greywyvern.com</a> while
 > watching the menu. Eyuck.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. It looks fine to me. If I
scroll slowly, it is very fluid and nothing "weird" or "ugly" happens
for me ... if I click in the scroll bar, the text looks off verticaly
while the page is moving but is fine when the scroll stops. Maybe my
tolerance level is higher than yours?

 >
 > This is also a bug in Moz1.4 and is apparently a regression since it worked
 > fine in 1.3. So I added my site to the list of examples in the bug ticket
 > for this item in Bugzilla. Then I closed FireBird and I don't plan on
 > opening it again.
 >
 > I know it's bad of me to base my entire opinion of a browser on my first
 > impression, but this is my own site we're talking about! And no matter
 > how much Mozilla touts that their browser is the most standards compatible
 > browser out there, somehow it always seems to be Mozilla which causes me
 > compatibility headaches.
 >
 > Grey
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Netscape is dead (officially) 

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:34:59 +0100 "Ben M" <cee.plus.DeleteThis@virgin.net>
broke off from drinking a cup of tea at to write:

 >Yes it's true Netscape is going the way of the dodo.
 >
 >Mozilla will continue under the auspices of the mozilla foundation
 >http://mozilla.org/press/mozilla-foundation.html
 >note the improved home page design BTW.
 >
 >Any comments on the news?

It's not surprising, though a little sad that it's one less competitor
to a single company domination of the browser market. Competition has
to be in the consumer's interest (I mean real competiton, not half a
dozen companies owned by a single group of people).

Matt

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 >> Stay informed about: Netscape is dead (officially) 

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:24:20 -0700, TechnoHippie <technohippie.RemoveThis@comcast.net>
wrote:

 > I'm not sure what you're talking about. It looks fine to me. If I
 > scroll slowly, it is very fluid and nothing "weird" or "ugly" happens for
 > me ... if I click in the scroll bar, the text looks off verticaly while
 > the page is moving but is fine when the scroll stops. Maybe my tolerance
 > level is higher than yours?

Probably. Especially since it's a regression, and I'm somewhat of a
perfectionist :/

I still hold to the theory that thousands of people can build something
that functions and gets the job done, yet works of art are rarely made by
more than a small group of people, usually only one. Of course, with the
former, you get it quickly; with the latter it could take years

What's that old business rule... "When a company incorporates and hires a
board of directors, it's productivity immediately decreases by 50%" or some
such. I like Opera's chances better in this case.

Grey

--
The technical axiom that nothing is impossible sinisterly implies the
pitfall corollory that nothing is ridiculous.
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 >> Stay informed about: Netscape is dead (officially) 

In article <oprsey7ah7gk3m3d.RemoveThis@news.nas.net>,
sp_bhuisman.RemoveThis@greywyvern.com_am says...
 > On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:24:20 -0700, TechnoHippie <technohippie.RemoveThis@comcast.net>
 > wrote:
 >
  > > I'm not sure what you're talking about. It looks fine to me. If I
  > > scroll slowly, it is very fluid and nothing "weird" or "ugly" happens for
  > > me ... if I click in the scroll bar, the text looks off verticaly while
  > > the page is moving but is fine when the scroll stops. Maybe my tolerance
  > > level is higher than yours?
 >
 > Probably. Especially since it's a regression, and I'm somewhat of a
 > perfectionist :/

After a little more exploring, I found this:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.technohippie.com/screens/greyscreen.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.technohippie.com/screens/greyscreen.jpg</a>
I don't know php OR css but it looks like an alignment problem to me.
Is this what you're talking about? This is what it looks like in IE:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.technohippie.com/screens/greyscreenie.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.technohippie.com/screens/greyscreenie.jpg</a>
Not as bad but still not perfect

 > I still hold to the theory that thousands of people can build something
 > that functions and gets the job done, yet works of art are rarely made by
 > more than a small group of people, usually only one. Of course, with the
 > former, you get it quickly; with the latter it could take years

I've been using the Internet as a canvas since 1995. Remember the "html
as an artform" camp from The Well?

 > What's that old business rule... "When a company incorporates and hires a
 > board of directors, it's productivity immediately decreases by 50%" or some
 > such. I like Opera's chances better in this case.
 >
 > Grey
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Netscape is dead (officially) 

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:34:59 +0100, Ben M <cee.plus.DeleteThis@virgin.net> wrote:

 > Yes it's true Netscape is going the way of the dodo.
 >
 > Mozilla will continue under the auspices of the mozilla foundation
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://mozilla.org/press/mozilla-foundation.html</font" target="_blank">http://mozilla.org/press/mozilla-foundation.html</font</a>>
 > note the improved home page design BTW.


This news actually encouraged me to download Mozilla 1.4 (and find a
disturbing error in the CSS of Nameplace.com.au ...).

As long as strong leadership is shown by a group of committed people
Mozilla will be around for many years to come.


Adrian Appleyard
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.Nameplace.com.au/" target="_blank">http://www.Nameplace.com.au/</a>

{ affordable domains + quality hosting }<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Netscape is dead (officially) 

 > Ben M wrote:
  >> Yes it's true Netscape is going the way of the dodo.
  >>
  >> Mozilla will continue under the auspices of the mozilla foundation
<font color=green>  >> <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://mozilla.org/press/mozilla-foundation.html</font" target="_blank">http://mozilla.org/press/mozilla-foundation.html</font</a>>
  >> note the improved home page design BTW.
  >>
  >> Any comments on the news?
  >>
<font color=green>  >> <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.benmeadowcroft.com/me/archive/2003/july.shtml#link16th_1</font" target="_blank">http://www.benmeadowcroft.com/me/archive/2003/july.shtml#link16th_1</font</a>>
  >> (my take on the subject)
 >
 > Where does that say Netscape has been formally abandoned? Not that
 > Netscape has shown any real signs of life for a while.

From a browser developpment point of view netscape will continue to support
current versions (
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://news.com.com/2100-1032_3-1026078.html?tag=fd_top" target="_blank">http://news.com.com/2100-1032_3-1026078.html?tag=fd_top</a> ), future browser
development is unlikely since the browser people are being laid off or have
gone elsewhere, Opera and Apple (Safari) to name two.

Read
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2003c.html#t20030715" target="_blank">http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2003c.html#t20030715</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2003c.html#t20030716" target="_blank">http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2003c.html#t20030716</a>
for a current netscape employees thoughts.

I should clarify that I am specifically refering to Netscape the browser,
not netscape the portal (though I don't exactly see them having a glittering
future).

--
BenM
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 >> Stay informed about: Netscape is dead (officially) 

Ben M wrote:

  >> Where does that say Netscape has been formally abandoned? Not that
  >> Netscape has shown any real signs of life for a while.
 >
 > From a browser developpment point of view netscape will continue to
 > support current versions (
 > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://news.com.com/2100-1032_3-1026078.html?tag=fd_top" target="_blank">http://news.com.com/2100-1032_3-1026078.html?tag=fd_top</a> ), future
 > browser development is unlikely since the browser people are being
 > laid off or have gone elsewhere, Opera and Apple (Safari) to name two.
 >
 > Read
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2003c.html#t20030715</font" target="_blank">http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2003c.html#t20030715</font</a>>
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2003c.html#t20030716</font" target="_blank">http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2003c.html#t20030716</font</a>>
 > for a current netscape employees thoughts.
 >
 > I should clarify that I am specifically refering to Netscape the
 > browser, not netscape the portal (though I don't exactly see them
 > having a glittering future).

I still don't see any official announcement the browser is dead.
However, my guess is that you are right and it is just a matter of when,
and not if, the browser will be killed off.
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 >> Stay informed about: Netscape is dead (officially) 

In article <3f157cf5$0$154$892e7fe2@authen.puce.readfreenews.net>,
rfgdxm.TakeThisOut@mochamail.com says...
 > Ben M wrote:
 >
   > >> Where does that say Netscape has been formally abandoned? Not that
   > >> Netscape has shown any real signs of life for a while.
  > >
  > > From a browser developpment point of view netscape will continue to
  > > support current versions (
  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://news.com.com/2100-1032_3-1026078.html?tag=fd_top" target="_blank">http://news.com.com/2100-1032_3-1026078.html?tag=fd_top</a> ), future
  > > browser development is unlikely since the browser people are being
  > > laid off or have gone elsewhere, Opera and Apple (Safari) to name two.
  > >
  > > Read
<font color=green>  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2003c.html#t20030715</font" target="_blank">http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2003c.html#t20030715</font</a>>
<font color=green>  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2003c.html#t20030716</font" target="_blank">http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2003c.html#t20030716</font</a>>
  > > for a current netscape employees thoughts.
  > >
  > > I should clarify that I am specifically refering to Netscape the
  > > browser, not netscape the portal (though I don't exactly see them
  > > having a glittering future).
 >
 > I still don't see any official announcement the browser is dead.
 > However, my guess is that you are right and it is just a matter of when,
 > and not if, the browser will be killed off.

The fact that AOL put them out to pasture isn't a good sign. But then,
I'm one of those who think AOL's days are numbered, as well. LOL ...
I've been saying that since the '90s.

Judy<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Netscape is dead (officially) 

"TechnoHippie" <technohippie.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.197f25b6db37048598993c@news.comcast.giganews.com...
 > In article <3f157cf5$0$154$892e7fe2@authen.puce.readfreenews.net>,
 > rfgdxm.DeleteThis@mochamail.com says...
  > > Ben M wrote:
  > >
   > > >> Where does that say Netscape has been formally abandoned? Not that
   > > >> Netscape has shown any real signs of life for a while.
   > > >
   > > > From a browser developpment point of view netscape will continue to
   > > > support current versions (
   > > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://news.com.com/2100-1032_3-1026078.html?tag=fd_top" target="_blank">http://news.com.com/2100-1032_3-1026078.html?tag=fd_top</a> ), future
   > > > browser development is unlikely since the browser people are being
   > > > laid off or have gone elsewhere, Opera and Apple (Safari) to name two.
   > > >
   > > > Read
<font color=brown>   > > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2003c.html#t20030715</font" target="_blank">http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2003c.html#t20030715</font</a>>
<font color=brown>   > > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2003c.html#t20030716</font" target="_blank">http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2003c.html#t20030716</font</a>>
   > > > for a current netscape employees thoughts.
   > > >
   > > > I should clarify that I am specifically refering to Netscape the
   > > > browser, not netscape the portal (though I don't exactly see them
   > > > having a glittering future).
  > >
  > > I still don't see any official announcement the browser is dead.
  > > However, my guess is that you are right and it is just a matter of when,
  > > and not if, the browser will be killed off.
 >
 > The fact that AOL put them out to pasture isn't a good sign. But then,
 > I'm one of those who think AOL's days are numbered, as well. LOL ...
 > I've been saying that since the '90s.

That's a lot of days to number...

 >
 > Judy<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Netscape is dead (officially) 

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:55:39 -0400, GreyWyvern
<sp_bhuisman.TakeThisOut@greywyvern.com_am> wrote:

snip
 >Downloaded Firebird 0.6 today and found that it has an annoying bug when
 >divs are "position:fixed" as well as "visibility:hidden"; made more
 >annoying because I use exactly those styles on my own page! Go with
 >Firebird and scroll up and down --> <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.greywyvern.com" target="_blank">http://www.greywyvern.com</a> while
 >watching the menu. Eyuck.

What's the problem? I can't see anything wrong.

Steve Josephs<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Netscape is dead (officially)