Good invisible Web statistics program?

On Fri, 04 May 2007 14:55:00 GMT, Robert Montgomery
<info-block.DeleteThis@stargate_tech.net> wrote:

>Are there yet any good Web statistics programs available, which allow
>invisible tracking of the statistics?

No.

In a nutshell <g>

You can achieve some approximations either by analysing the requests
made to the http server (web logs), and you can achieve some other
approximations through the use of cookies, javascript and the like,
but these will be susceptible to being disallowed by users.

It would make more sense to define what statistics you wish to record,
and then work from there.

Matt


--
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 >> Stay informed about: Good invisible Web statistics program? 

Robert Montgomery wrote:

> I was told before to get the statistics from my ISP, but I was told by
> my ISP I'd have to set up a business account for that, which would cost
> me hundreds of dollars a month. (Please don't recommend that I change
> ISPs; I'm not willing to do that just to get Web stats.)

It is true that getting Web stats isn't worth changing ISPs for.

However, it *is* worth changing ISP to get away from a company that will
charge you hundreds of dollars per month for basic services like this. I'm
sure you could find one for $30-$40/month.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
http://tobyinkster.co.uk/
Geek of ~ HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux
 >> Stay informed about: Good invisible Web statistics program? 

"Robert Montgomery" <info-block RemoveThis @stargate_tech.net> wrote in message
news:8PH_h.10485$KN6.2558@edtnps89...
> Are there yet any good Web statistics programs available, which allow
> invisible tracking of the statistics?
>
> I was told before to get the statistics from my ISP, but I was told by my
> ISP I'd have to set up a business account for that, which would cost me
> hundreds of dollars a month. (Please don't recommend that I change ISPs;
> I'm not willing to do that just to get Web stats.)
>
> What about Go Stats? I tried the free version, but I no longer want to
> have the Go Stats logo on my Web site front page, because it looks
> unprofessional.

A while back I pulled together a list of trackers -
http://www.cryer.co.uk/resources/websitetracking.htm. I only know of two
which are free and don't require a logo of some sort - RiteCounter and
StatSession. Don't know what either of them are like.

Hope this helps.
--
Brian Cryer
www.cryer.co.uk/brian
 >> Stay informed about: Good invisible Web statistics program? 

Robert Montgomery wrote:

> That's not true.

What's not true? That you don't have a web host? I thought your site was
hosted by your ISP. Generally, that is part of the package with an ISP.

Do you have your own domain name, or is your site at something like
www.myisp.com/~myusername?

> My ISP is hosting two sites for me and I'm paying for
> the hosting of those sites every month.

Above the cost of your connection to the internet? If so, then it should
be cost effective to move to another host that provides the statistics
you are looking for.

> And my ISP (Telus, in British Columbia) is probably the biggest one in
> my province; it probably has hundreds of thousands of customers.

That's fine. But by moving your sites to a different host, you can have
the stats you want included in the hosting package.
 >> Stay informed about: Good invisible Web statistics program? 

On Mon, 07 May 2007 18:42:54 GMT, Robert Montgomery put finger to
keyboard and typed:

>Mark Goodge wrote:
>
>> The only real downside
>> is the extent to which you're prepared to go along with Google's "all
>> your data are belong to us" approach to the web.
>
>What do you mean by "Google's 'all you data belong to us' approach to
>the Web"?

It was a humorous reference to a possible downside of Google having
access to too much data. Put Google Analytics on your website, and
you're sharing some of your key stats with Google. Use Google Adsense,
either as an advertiser or publisher, and you're allowing Google to
not only obtain a large amount of data about web users' habits but
allowing them to make money in the process of obtaining that data.
Google already owns the most commonly used web interface to Usenet, it
owns the most popular search engine and it owns the most popular
contextual advertising system. Google has also recently purchased one
of the largest "traditional" banner advertising operators,
Doubleclick, and with that purchase it also obtained one of
Doubleclick's subsidiaries, the SEO company Performics. Google also
owns YouTube, as well as running its own-branded video sharing site.
Then there's Gmail, Google Maps, Google Apps, Google Pictures
(Picasa), Google Calendar... How much more do you want to give them?

Mark
--
Visit: http://www.MotorwayServices.info - read and share comments and opinons
"Time is tickin' and we can't go back"
 >> Stay informed about: Good invisible Web statistics program? 

Scott Bryce wrote:

> Robert Montgomery wrote:
>
>> That's not true.
>
>
> What's not true? That you don't have a web host? I thought your site was
> hosted by your ISP. Generally, that is part of the package with an ISP.
>
> Do you have your own domain name, or is your site at something like
> www.myisp.com/~myusername?

I own two domains.

>> My ISP is hosting two sites for me and I'm paying for the hosting of
>> those sites every month.
>
>
> Above the cost of your connection to the internet? If so, then it should
> be cost effective to move to another host that provides the statistics
> you are looking for.

It would not be cost effective to switch ISPs.

(That's why I asked you not to recommend that I switch). My ISP is
providing me with personal Net space, several email accounts, hosting of
two domains, a basic phone line, a long distance phone plan and a
customized bundle of phone features, such as call waiting and caller ID
display and Caller Reveal. To change to another provider would be a
time-consuming and money-consuming hassle, including arranging with my
bank to change my monthly online ISP phone payment setup. That's why I
asked you not to recommend that I change my ISP.

Robert

>> And my ISP (Telus, in British Columbia) is probably the biggest one in
>> my province; it probably has hundreds of thousands of customers.
>
>
> That's fine. But by moving your sites to a different host, you can have
> the stats you want included in the hosting package.
 >> Stay informed about: Good invisible Web statistics program? 

Robert Montgomery wrote:

> It would not be cost effective to switch ISPs.

I am not suggesting that you switch ISPs. I m suggesting that you keep
your ISP and move just your hosting somewhere else. A 2-domain plan at a
low cost web host will run between $5.00 USD and $10.00 USD per month.
Is it worth that much additional cost to get the statistics that you
want? Will you save that much or more if you don't host at your ISP?

You do understand, don't you, that an ISP and a web host are two
different things? You just happen to be paying the same company to do
both for you right now. I am suggesting that you continue to pay your
ISP for your phone line, long distance, bundled phone features, etc.
Just have someone else host your two domains.
 >> Stay informed about: Good invisible Web statistics program? 

Robert Montgomery wrote:

> (That's why I asked you not to recommend that I switch). My ISP is
> providing me with personal Net space, several email accounts, hosting of
> two domains, a basic phone line, a long distance phone plan and a
> customized bundle of phone features, such as call waiting and caller ID
> display and Caller Reveal. To change to another provider would be a
> time-consuming and money-consuming hassle, including arranging with my
> bank to change my monthly online ISP phone payment setup. That's why I
> asked you not to recommend that I change my ISP.

Keep your ISP, but purchase web hosting from a professional web hosting
company -- not your ISP.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
http://tobyinkster.co.uk/
Geek of ~ HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux
 >> Stay informed about: Good invisible Web statistics program? 

On Fri, 04 May 2007 14:55:00 +0000, Robert Montgomery wrote:

> Are there yet any good Web statistics programs available, which allow
> invisible tracking of the statistics?
>
> I was told before to get the statistics from my ISP, but I was told by
> my ISP I'd have to set up a business account for that, which would cost
> me hundreds of dollars a month. (Please don't recommend that I change
> ISPs; I'm not willing to do that just to get Web stats.)
>

Sounds like you are using something like an earthlink personal page or other
personal page and having your url forwarded maybe?

There are several good reasons then to change isp if that is what you are
doing.

if you are running a business page, pay some money ( usually a small amount
for what you will get in return) and get a real ISP, I host many of my own
clients from 35 -65 per year depending on their traffic.
and they get cpanel which breaks everything down for them on the stats.

moving a site is not that hard unless you have no real web design
experience. I move accounts all the time with little problem.

__
Bacchus the Roman God of Wine
Women just love him
http://www.helamonster.com/classified/
 >> Stay informed about: Good invisible Web statistics program? 

Matt Probert wrote:

> On Fri, 04 May 2007 14:55:00 GMT, Robert Montgomery
> <info-block.TakeThisOut@stargate_tech.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Are there yet any good Web statistics programs available, which allow
>>invisible tracking of the statistics?
>
>
> No.
>
> In a nutshell <g>
>
> You can achieve some approximations either by analysing the requests
> made to the http server (web logs), and you can achieve some other
> approximations through the use of cookies, javascript and the like,
> but these will be susceptible to being disallowed by users.
>
> It would make more sense to define what statistics you wish to record,
> and then work from there.
>
> Matt

I need a site statistics analyzer with pretty graphic interpretation,
such as bar charts and pie charts.

Web logs I think would be too technical for me, 'cause I'm of a
graphical – not a very technical – bent.

Robert
 >> Stay informed about: Good invisible Web statistics program? 

Toby A Inkster wrote:

> Robert Montgomery wrote:
>
>
>>I was told before to get the statistics from my ISP, but I was told by
>>my ISP I'd have to set up a business account for that, which would cost
>>me hundreds of dollars a month. (Please don't recommend that I change
>>ISPs; I'm not willing to do that just to get Web stats.)
>
>
> It is true that getting Web stats isn't worth changing ISPs for.
>
> However, it *is* worth changing ISP to get away from a company that will
> charge you hundreds of dollars per month for basic services like this. I'm
> sure you could find one for $30-$40/month.

I called my ISP again and was told that I CAN get access to my Web logs,
but there's a heavy cost.

The logs aren't available because my data is on the old servers/platform
/package, and to get access to them I'd have to switch to the new
servers/platform/package, which means that I wouldn't be able to get my
Web bill included with my phone bill.

It would also mean that the contents of my Web sites and email would
have to be transferred to my ISP's new servers/platform/package, which
implies to me there would or could be hassles with my email accounts.

It would also mean I'd have to contact both of my domain registrars to
get them to change my name servers.

It sounds like a big, time-consuming and frustrating hassle, and I've
decided Web logs aren't satisfactory for my needs anyway; I want lovely
pie charts and bar charts to help me to easily analyze my hit info.

Robert
 >> Stay informed about: Good invisible Web statistics program? 

Robert Montgomery wrote:
> Toby A Inkster wrote:
>
>> Robert Montgomery wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I was told before to get the statistics from my ISP, but I was told
>>> by my ISP I'd have to set up a business account for that, which would
>>> cost me hundreds of dollars a month. (Please don't recommend that I
>>> change ISPs; I'm not willing to do that just to get Web stats.)
>>
>>
>> It is true that getting Web stats isn't worth changing ISPs for.
>>
>> However, it *is* worth changing ISP to get away from a company that will
>> charge you hundreds of dollars per month for basic services like this.
>> I'm
>> sure you could find one for $30-$40/month.
>
> I called my ISP again and was told that I CAN get access to my Web logs,
> but there's a heavy cost.
>
> The logs aren't available because my data is on the old servers/platform
> /package, and to get access to them I'd have to switch to the new
> servers/platform/package, which means that I wouldn't be able to get my
> Web bill included with my phone bill.
>

But you can get other hosting for a very reasonable price - $5-10/mo.,
for instance.

> It would also mean that the contents of my Web sites and email would
> have to be transferred to my ISP's new servers/platform/package, which
> implies to me there would or could be hassles with my email accounts.
>

Depending on the size of your site and your upload/download speed, this
might take five to thirty minutes.

> It would also mean I'd have to contact both of my domain registrars to
> get them to change my name servers.
>

I can change the nameservers I use myself. This takes two minutes.

> It sounds like a big, time-consuming and frustrating hassle, and I've
> decided Web logs aren't satisfactory for my needs anyway; I want lovely
> pie charts and bar charts to help me to easily analyze my hit info.
>

Should take less than an hour to do everything. It will take longer for
everything to propagate throughout the net.

I admit raw statistics themselves are worthless. But if you have them,
you can run virtually any statistics analysis program to get the graphs
you want.


> Robert


--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex RemoveThis @attglobal.net
==================
 >> Stay informed about: Good invisible Web statistics program? 

Brian Cryer wrote:

> "Robert Montgomery" <info-block RemoveThis @stargate_tech.net> wrote in message
> news:8PH_h.10485$KN6.2558@edtnps89...
>
>>Are there yet any good Web statistics programs available, which allow
>>invisible tracking of the statistics?
>>
>>I was told before to get the statistics from my ISP, but I was told by my
>>ISP I'd have to set up a business account for that, which would cost me
>>hundreds of dollars a month. (Please don't recommend that I change ISPs;
>>I'm not willing to do that just to get Web stats.)
>>
>>What about Go Stats? I tried the free version, but I no longer want to
>>have the Go Stats logo on my Web site front page, because it looks
>>unprofessional.
>
>
> A while back I pulled together a list of trackers -
> http://www.cryer.co.uk/resources/websitetracking.htm. I only know of two
> which are free and don't require a logo of some sort - RiteCounter and
> StatSession. Don't know what either of them are like.
>
> Hope this helps.

Yes, it helped somewhat, Brian.

I'm now using the Stat Session tracker at your suggestion (at the
http://www.mywebstats.org site), but despite clicking on the button
that's supposed to make the tracker code invisible on my site, the
tracker code on my site IS visible anyway, with a link to an inkjet
supply company. (The linkage explains why the tracker is free; the
tracker provides advertising revenue for the tracking company.)

And the tracker is limited because it only lists the front page of my
site as being the "referrer" page, so I don't know what pages on my site
people are looking at. Maybe it's because my site is all frame-based – I
don't know.

And the counter doesn't show the country of origin of the hitters. (I
emailed the company to suggest adding the country of origin to the
stats, but there was no reply.)

Robert
 >> Stay informed about: Good invisible Web statistics program?