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External
Since: Aug 10, 2003
Posts: 182
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:44 am
Post subject: Fair Use Question?
Archived from groups: alt>www>webmaster (more info?)
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I found this [http://blinkynet.net/spag/disc1.html] on Blinky's site
and, besides pissing my pants and wiping the tears from my eyes, a
question popped into my head. Since the disclaimer is entirely compiled
of common phrases, would replication of the disclaimer be plaguerism,
copyright violation or fair use? This is just an example but there are
other areas that seem gray to me as well: compilations of famous quotes,
song lyrics, etc.
Judy |
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External
Since: Jul 03, 2003
Posts: 12
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 4:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Fair Use Question? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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TechnoHippie <technohippie RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote in message news:<MPG.197c6192d95e5b0b989913 RemoveThis @news.comcast.giganews.com>...
> I found this [http://blinkynet.net/spag/disc1.html] on Blinky's site
> and, besides pissing my pants and wiping the tears from my eyes, a
> question popped into my head. Since the disclaimer is entirely compiled
> of common phrases, would replication of the disclaimer be plaguerism,
> copyright violation or fair use? This is just an example but there are
> other areas that seem gray to me as well: compilations of famous quotes,
> song lyrics, etc.
Yes, replication of the disclaimer would be a copyright violation. In
particular, the disclaimer is clearly a "creative work", which makes the
courts even more willing to protect it. However, I'm not sure that
Blinky is the original author, as I found this link as well:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.texasaepi.com/disclaimer.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.texasaepi.com/disclaimer.shtml</a>
And I think I've seen it before somewhere, although neither Google nor
Deja News reminded me where.
Song lyrics are definitely copyrighted as "creative works". Compilations
of quotes are generally covered under what it referred to as "compilation
copyrights". You cannot copyright facts (such as famous quotes). You
can copyright the presentation of facts, including the style in which
they're presented and even the choice of which facts to include and which
facts to exclude. If you copy all of someone's collection of quotes
verbatim, or even a large portion of it, you're violating his copyright.
There's an added gotcha with "compilation copyrights", in that many
compilation copyright holder insert copyright traps into their work.
They will deliberately introduce a few errors into their work. Any work
which shows those same errors could only have obtained them directly
from the copyrighted work, without verifying the error's factual
accuracy. As such, the violator is dead meat for a copyright lawsuit.
Jim<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
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External
Since: Aug 10, 2003
Posts: 182
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 4:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Fair Use Question? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <f788a984.0307141209.65808b57.RemoveThis@posting.google.com>,
griffith.RemoveThis@dweeb.org says...
> TechnoHippie <technohippie.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<MPG.197c6192d95e5b0b989913.RemoveThis@news.comcast.giganews.com>...
> > I found this [http://blinkynet.net/spag/disc1.html] on Blinky's site
> > and, besides pissing my pants and wiping the tears from my eyes, a
> > question popped into my head. Since the disclaimer is entirely compiled
> > of common phrases, would replication of the disclaimer be plaguerism,
> > copyright violation or fair use? This is just an example but there are
> > other areas that seem gray to me as well: compilations of famous quotes,
> > song lyrics, etc.
>
> Yes, replication of the disclaimer would be a copyright violation. In
> particular, the disclaimer is clearly a "creative work", which makes the
> courts even more willing to protect it. However, I'm not sure that
> Blinky is the original author, as I found this link as well:
>
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.texasaepi.com/disclaimer.shtml</font" target="_blank">http://www.texasaepi.com/disclaimer.shtml</font</a>>
"This supersedes all previous notices applicable. This disclaimer may
not be copied without the expressed written consent of whoever it was
taken from. Based on our careful analysis, none of us are responsible
for anything!"
LOL
> And I think I've seen it before somewhere, although neither Google nor
> Deja News reminded me where.
>
> Song lyrics are definitely copyrighted as "creative works". Compilations
> of quotes are generally covered under what it referred to as "compilation
> copyrights". You cannot copyright facts (such as famous quotes). You
> can copyright the presentation of facts, including the style in which
> they're presented and even the choice of which facts to include and which
> facts to exclude. If you copy all of someone's collection of quotes
> verbatim, or even a large portion of it, you're violating his copyright.
>
> There's an added gotcha with "compilation copyrights", in that many
> compilation copyright holder insert copyright traps into their work.
> They will deliberately introduce a few errors into their work. Any work
> which shows those same errors could only have obtained them directly
> from the copyrighted work, without verifying the error's factual
> accuracy. As such, the violator is dead meat for a copyright lawsuit.
Thanks Jim, that all make perfect sense to me.
Judy<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Fair Use Question? |
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External
Since: Jun 30, 2003
Posts: 41
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 8:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Fair Use Question? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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TechnoHippie wrote:
> I found this [http://blinkynet.net/spag/disc1.html] on Blinky's site
> and, besides pissing my pants and wiping the tears from my eyes, a
> question popped into my head. Since the disclaimer is entirely compiled
> of common phrases,
Most content in this world is "compiled of common phrases"; it's the
combination of those phrases (and words) that makes it something
original and/or of artistic value  .
> would replication of the disclaimer be plaguerism,
> copyright violation or fair use? This is just an example but there are
> other areas that seem gray to me as well: compilations of famous quotes,
> song lyrics, etc.
It's not copyright violation if the author allows you to use it - in all
other cases, it probably is, unless covered by fair use, which of course
would have to be decided in court.
But it's only plagiarism if you claim you invented it. On the other
hand, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and there is no
artist in this world that hasn't intentionally or unintentionally used
somebody else's idea and passed it off as his own.
And since I'm not a lawyer, let me add this important disclaimer to all
I've said above: Do not use in shower or tub.
Matthias<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Fair Use Question? |
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External
Since: Jul 03, 2003
Posts: 98
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 8:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Fair Use Question? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <MPG.197c6192d95e5b0b989913.RemoveThis@news.comcast.giganews.com>,
TechnoHippie wrote:
> I found this [http://blinkynet.net/spag/disc1.html] on Blinky's site
> and, besides pissing my pants and wiping the tears from my eyes, a
> question popped into my head. Since the disclaimer is entirely compiled
> of common phrases, would replication of the disclaimer be plaguerism,
> copyright violation or fair use? This is just an example but there are
> other areas that seem gray to me as well: compilations of famous quotes,
> song lyrics, etc.
>
> Judy
If you had taken the time to properly read the disclaimer you would have
noted the phrase "no copying allowed."
kb<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Fair Use Question? |
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External
Since: Aug 10, 2003
Posts: 182
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 8:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Fair Use Question? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <slrnbh5or2.r03.no_user.DeleteThis@localhost.localdomain>,
no_user.DeleteThis@no_particular_domain.com says...
> In article <MPG.197c6192d95e5b0b989913.DeleteThis@news.comcast.giganews.com>,
> TechnoHippie wrote:
> > I found this [http://blinkynet.net/spag/disc1.html] on Blinky's site
> > and, besides pissing my pants and wiping the tears from my eyes, a
> > question popped into my head. Since the disclaimer is entirely compiled
> > of common phrases, would replication of the disclaimer be plaguerism,
> > copyright violation or fair use? This is just an example but there are
> > other areas that seem gray to me as well: compilations of famous quotes,
> > song lyrics, etc.
> >
> > Judy
>
> If you had taken the time to properly read the disclaimer you would have
> noted the phrase "no copying allowed."
LOL!
*snag*<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Fair Use Question? |
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External
Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 71
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 8:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Fair Use Question? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"see above" <no_user.DeleteThis@no_particular_domain.com> wrote in message
news:slrnbh5or2.r03.no_user@localhost.localdomain...
> In article <MPG.197c6192d95e5b0b989913.DeleteThis@news.comcast.giganews.com>,
> TechnoHippie wrote:
> > I found this [http://blinkynet.net/spag/disc1.html] on Blinky's site
> > and, besides pissing my pants and wiping the tears from my eyes, a
> > question popped into my head. Since the disclaimer is entirely compiled
> > of common phrases, would replication of the disclaimer be plaguerism,
> > copyright violation or fair use? This is just an example but there are
> > other areas that seem gray to me as well: compilations of famous quotes,
> > song lyrics, etc.
> >
> > Judy
>
> If you had taken the time to properly read the disclaimer you would have
> noted the phrase "no copying allowed."
>
> kb
If you had taken the time to read the contents of the page, you'd have seen
it's nothing more than a collection of commonly found phrases in the market
place. Since none of the phrases are of original work by the page creator,
copyright by the creator does not exist.
Excerpt:
There is no medical facility on board. You may experience drowsiness. Not
guaranteed to work all the time. Watch for broken glass. Errors must be
reported within 72 hrs. Damages to shipment must be reported to courier at
time of delivery. All linens are not laundered after each guest. Serving
suggestion. Watch your step. Schedules may be cancelled at any time. Doors
close at showtime. No food or drink.
No copyright exists on the use of the words. This falls under "fair use" and
"public domain".<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Fair Use Question? |
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External
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Posts: 589
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Fair Use Question? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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TechnoHippie wrote:
> I found this [http://blinkynet.net/spag/disc1.html] on Blinky's site
> and, besides pissing my pants and wiping the tears from my eyes, a
> question popped into my head. Since the disclaimer is entirely
> compiled of common phrases, would replication of the disclaimer be
> plaguerism, copyright violation or fair use? This is just an example
> but there are other areas that seem gray to me as well: compilations
> of famous quotes, song lyrics, etc.
For the record, I got most of it from another site's similar mock
disclaimer, myself, and have made some additions that have been
suggested in various groups. I've also seen variations posted to
groups, and, now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure that goes back
to the old BBS days of the at least the early '90s.
Glad you enjoyed it.
--
Blinky T. "Contains peanut traces. And beer." Shark
Spam: The Boulder Pledge <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://snurl.com/boulder" target="_blank">http://snurl.com/boulder</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Fair Use Question? |
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External
Since: Aug 10, 2003
Posts: 182
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Fair Use Question? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <slrnbh60l4.9ir.no.spam.TakeThisOut@adam.blinkynet.net>,
no.spam.TakeThisOut@box.invalid says...
> TechnoHippie wrote:
>
> > I found this [http://blinkynet.net/spag/disc1.html] on Blinky's site
> > and, besides pissing my pants and wiping the tears from my eyes, a
> > question popped into my head. Since the disclaimer is entirely
> > compiled of common phrases, would replication of the disclaimer be
> > plaguerism, copyright violation or fair use? This is just an example
> > but there are other areas that seem gray to me as well: compilations
> > of famous quotes, song lyrics, etc.
>
> For the record, I got most of it from another site's similar mock
> disclaimer, myself, and have made some additions that have been
> suggested in various groups. I've also seen variations posted to
> groups, and, now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure that goes back
> to the old BBS days of the at least the early '90s.
>
> Glad you enjoyed it.
Hey Blinky,
It seems familiar but I hold to the belief that there is nothing new
under the sun, afterall
That's sort of the point. I seen this or something so similar I can't
make the distinction on numerous occasions and various websites. I
think you're right, that it probably goes back at least very early
usenet. I wouldn't hesitate to use my own formatted version of it since
there was no copyright claim made on your page and it did seem familiar.
I would, of course, include my own disclaimer linking to the original
source (original to me), and claim fair use.
My question is this: will that work for popular song lyrics or poetry
(like beat), as long as I cite my source and claim fair use? Some
articles from some sources are okay to include as web content but others
are down-right nasty about it. My attitude is if the
article/book/song/poem/quote has been floating out there long enough and
often enough, it should be a matter of fair use. After all, information
wants to be free
Judy<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Fair Use Question? |
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External
Since: Jul 03, 2003
Posts: 98
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Fair Use Question? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <beuu0u0c8m RemoveThis @enews4.newsguy.com>, Richard wrote:
>
> "see above" <no_user RemoveThis @no_particular_domain.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnbh5or2.r03.no_user@localhost.localdomain...
>> In article <MPG.197c6192d95e5b0b989913 RemoveThis @news.comcast.giganews.com>,
>> TechnoHippie wrote:
>> > I found this [http://blinkynet.net/spag/disc1.html] on Blinky's site
>> > and, besides pissing my pants and wiping the tears from my eyes, a
>> > question popped into my head. Since the disclaimer is entirely compiled
>> > of common phrases, would replication of the disclaimer be plaguerism,
>> > copyright violation or fair use? This is just an example but there are
>> > other areas that seem gray to me as well: compilations of famous quotes,
>> > song lyrics, etc.
>> >
>> > Judy
>>
>> If you had taken the time to properly read the disclaimer you would have
>> noted the phrase "no copying allowed."
>>
>> kb
>
> If you had taken the time to read the contents of the page, you'd have seen
> it's nothing more than a collection of commonly found phrases in the market
> place. Since none of the phrases are of original work by the page creator,
> copyright by the creator does not exist.
Honestly, I am aware of all you say...I'll assume you missed the " " at the
end of of my comments.
kb<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Fair Use Question? |
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External
Since: Aug 10, 2003
Posts: 182
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Fair Use Question? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <slrnbh62hu.slo.no_user RemoveThis @localhost.localdomain>,
no_user RemoveThis @no_particular_domain.com says...
> In article <beuu0u0c8m RemoveThis @enews4.newsguy.com>, Richard wrote:
> >
> > "see above" <no_user RemoveThis @no_particular_domain.com> wrote in message
> > news:slrnbh5or2.r03.no_user@localhost.localdomain...
> >> In article <MPG.197c6192d95e5b0b989913 RemoveThis @news.comcast.giganews.com>,
> >> TechnoHippie wrote:
> >> > I found this [http://blinkynet.net/spag/disc1.html] on Blinky's site
> >> > and, besides pissing my pants and wiping the tears from my eyes, a
> >> > question popped into my head. Since the disclaimer is entirely compiled
> >> > of common phrases, would replication of the disclaimer be plaguerism,
> >> > copyright violation or fair use? This is just an example but there are
> >> > other areas that seem gray to me as well: compilations of famous quotes,
> >> > song lyrics, etc.
> >> >
> >> > Judy
> >>
> >> If you had taken the time to properly read the disclaimer you would have
> >> noted the phrase "no copying allowed."
> >>
> >> kb
> >
> > If you had taken the time to read the contents of the page, you'd have seen
> > it's nothing more than a collection of commonly found phrases in the market
> > place. Since none of the phrases are of original work by the page creator,
> > copyright by the creator does not exist.
>
> Honestly, I am aware of all you say...I'll assume you missed the "" at the
> end of of my comments.
See ... this is why I love America! You can be a complete and utter
moron and and live to brag about it.
kb, did you notice who the moron was? His name is Richard aka RtS
[Richard the Stupid]. Please don't feed him, though. He's very hungry
and very greedy and will suck the life out of this group in a canary
heartbeat.
Judy
>
> kb
><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Fair Use Question? |
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External
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Posts: 589
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 11:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Fair Use Question? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Jim Griffith wrote:
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.texasaepi.com/disclaimer.shtml</font" target="_blank">http://www.texasaepi.com/disclaimer.shtml</font</a>>
> And I think I've seen it before somewhere, although neither Google nor
> Deja News reminded me where.
As an aside to the extent of its presence on the web: assuming that the
two components of the mock disclaimer's "apply only to affected area may
be too intense for some viewers" would only be adjacent in such a mock
disclaimer, I gooled the string and got 1,440 hits.
--
Blinky Linux RU 297263
Spam: The Boulder Pledge <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://snurl.com/boulder" target="_blank">http://snurl.com/boulder</a>
All In The Family <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://snurl.com/familything" target="_blank">http://snurl.com/familything</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Fair Use Question? |
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External
Since: Jun 30, 2003
Posts: 41
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 1:05 am
Post subject: Re: Fair Use Question? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Richard schrieb:
>
> "see above" <no_user.RemoveThis@no_particular_domain.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnbh5or2.r03.no_user@localhost.localdomain...
> > In article <MPG.197c6192d95e5b0b989913.RemoveThis@news.comcast.giganews.com>,
> > TechnoHippie wrote:
> > > I found this [http://blinkynet.net/spag/disc1.html] on Blinky's site
> > > and, besides pissing my pants and wiping the tears from my eyes, a
> > > question popped into my head. Since the disclaimer is entirely compiled
> > > of common phrases, would replication of the disclaimer be plaguerism,
> > > copyright violation or fair use? This is just an example but there are
> > > other areas that seem gray to me as well: compilations of famous quotes,
> > > song lyrics, etc.
> > >
> > > Judy
> >
> > If you had taken the time to properly read the disclaimer you would have
> > noted the phrase "no copying allowed."
> >
> > kb
>
> If you had taken the time to read the contents of the page, you'd have seen
> it's nothing more than a collection of commonly found phrases in the market
> place. Since none of the phrases are of original work by the page creator,
> copyright by the creator does not exist.
This doesn't matter. The author could argue that he holds the copyright
for this particular collection. I doubt he would, it's more hassle than
it's worth, but he could. And you'd have to prove him wrong, which again
is a lot more hassle than it's worth, but you could try.
Simply put, the whole question of copyright is moot in this particular
case, there's simply no money in it, and the author probably wouldn't
even bother protecting his rights if he thought he had any.
It would be another case if this were N Stouffer vs. JK Rowling, of
course.
Matthias<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Fair Use Question? |
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External
Since: Jun 28, 2003
Posts: 1662
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 1:57 am
Post subject: Re: Fair Use Question? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"TechnoHippie" <technohippie RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.197c6192d95e5b0b989913@news.comcast.giganews.com...
> I found this [http://blinkynet.net/spag/disc1.html] on Blinky's site
> and, besides pissing my pants and wiping the tears from my eyes, a
> question popped into my head. Since the disclaimer is entirely compiled
> of common phrases, would replication of the disclaimer be plaguerism,
> copyright violation or fair use? This is just an example but there are
> other areas that seem gray to me as well: compilations of famous quotes,
> song lyrics, etc.
Very good! I reckon it would breach copyright to copy it. As you say they
are common phrases, but it's the copilation that is the work of another
person, if you get my meaning.
YMMV
Just my 2 cents.
I am not a lawyer.
--
Charles Sweeney
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.CharlesSweeney.com" target="_blank">www.CharlesSweeney.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Fair Use Question? |
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