Accessible Forum

www.RemoveThis@probertencyclopaedia.com (Matt Probert) wrote in message news:<3f73e0b5.1166046.RemoveThis@news.ntlworld.com>...
 > On 25 Sep 2003 12:53:01 -0700 lurchlurch.RemoveThis@hotmail.com (Lurch) broke
 > off from drinking a cup of tea at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://groups.google.com/" target="_blank">http://groups.google.com/</a> to write:
 >
  > >Having used Snitz as my forum software of choice on several sites I'm
  > >concerned about the lack of accessibility.
  > >
  > >I have a number of sites that have an accessibilty theme and are WAI
  > >WCAG P2, use validated XHTML 1.0 Strict and CSS.
 >
 > Yes. But are they accessible?
 >
 > Matt

Yes Matt they are accessible and have been user tested by a varity of
Visually impaired users using a range of Assistive Technologies
alongside groups of dyslexic users.

they are as accessible as I can make them but experience shows that
you'll never get a site to be accessible to everyone. P2 is achievable
(as oppsoed to P3 which will never be fully acheivable) and using
XHTML assists in meeting the lower level checkpoints and validated
grammar is the only way forward, but the user tesing is the most
valuable indicator. As you are aware the WCAG Priotities are only
guidelines and the neurocognitive issues left out by Section 508 (to
allow easy mechanistic testing of pages) are probably the most
important checkpoints to consider.

There are a number of problems with WCAG. for instance I have spent
many a happy hour produced shortcut keys only to find out that nearly
all the shortcut keys clash with the functionlity of at least one AT
package.

I have yet to see a forum that is accessible, the predominant use of
tables excludes a lot of users and if you are using AT it can make
live rather tedious.

I see your point about "is it accessible". The number of sites I see
with a bloody "Bobby" logo or even the RNIB "See it right" logo that
dont actually work or allow the user to scale the text using the
browser drives me up the wall. And of course it appears that most web
design agencys are now accessibility "experts", with SENDA and DDA at
the front of alot of minds there is a lot of money to be made but
buying a copy of bobby and slamming logos on a page does not make it
acessible.


Oooops just realised I've entered rambling mode so if you do know of a
forum that is accessible I'd be interested to know, if not I know what
I'm doing this weekend.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Accessible Forum 

www DeleteThis @probertencyclopaedia.com (Matt Probert) wrote in message news:<3f73e0b5.1166046 DeleteThis @news.ntlworld.com>...
 > On 25 Sep 2003 12:53:01 -0700 lurchlurch DeleteThis @hotmail.com (Lurch) broke
 > off from drinking a cup of tea at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://groups.google.com/" target="_blank">http://groups.google.com/</a> to write:
 >
  > >Having used Snitz as my forum software of choice on several sites I'm
  > >concerned about the lack of accessibility.
  > >
  > >I have a number of sites that have an accessibilty theme and are WAI
  > >WCAG P2, use validated XHTML 1.0 Strict and CSS.
 >
 > Yes. But are they accessible?
 >
 > Matt

What about phpBB?




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 >> Stay informed about: Accessible Forum 

On 25 Sep 2003 12:53:01 -0700, Lurch <lurchlurch.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:

 > Having used Snitz as my forum software of choice on several sites I'm
 > concerned about the lack of accessibility.
 >
 > I have a number of sites that have an accessibilty theme and are WAI
 > WCAG P2, use validated XHTML 1.0 Strict and CSS.
 >
 > I have been asked to provide a forum with the Snitz type functionality
 > but obviously Snitz is not up to the job. Before I wire myself up on
 > caffiene and nicotene in advance of another marathon coding session
 > does anyone know of a forum I can easily tweak to be accessible i.e.
 > - get it to validate
 > - allow me to position using relative rather than abolute values
 > - ideally control elements via CSS
 >
 > I realise that I'm not going to find one that has positioning via CSS
 > but if I can at least provide some labeling to form elements and to
 > summarise table it makes the assistive technology users live a bit
 > easier.
 >
 > Any ideas gratefully recieved

I don't know if it's as feature-rich as you'd like, but my PHP forum here:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.greywyvern.com/orca_forum.php" target="_blank">http://www.greywyvern.com/orca_forum.php</a> is a threaded message-board that
validates under XHTML strict, and looks nice on PDA and text browsers too


Grey

--
The technical axiom that nothing is impossible sinisterly implies the
pitfall corollory that nothing is ridiculous.
- <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.greywyvern.com" target="_blank">http://www.greywyvern.com</a> - Orca RingMaker: PHP web ring creation and
management<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Accessible Forum 

Lurch wrote:
 > Having used Snitz as my forum software of choice on several sites I'm
 > concerned about the lack of accessibility.
 >
 > I have a number of sites that have an accessibilty theme and are WAI
 > WCAG P2, use validated XHTML 1.0 Strict and CSS.
 >
 > I have been asked to provide a forum with the Snitz type functionality

accessify.com is working hard to make their phpbb-based forum
accessible, and apparently it's not an easy thing. They discuss the
problems in the forum, perhaps you can find useful leads there:
<http://www.accessifyforum.com/viewforum.php?f=10&sid=df14ea6f305988651a31a651c88fabee>.


Matthias<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Matthias Gutfeldt <say-no-to-spam.RemoveThis@gmx.net> wrote in message news:<bl17ms$6rbpe$1@ID-16734.news.uni-berlin.de>...
 > Lurch wrote:
  > > Having used Snitz as my forum software of choice on several sites I'm
  > > concerned about the lack of accessibility.
  > >
  > > I have a number of sites that have an accessibilty theme and are WAI
  > > WCAG P2, use validated XHTML 1.0 Strict and CSS.
  > >
  > > I have been asked to provide a forum with the Snitz type functionality
 >
 > accessify.com is working hard to make their phpbb-based forum
 > accessible, and apparently it's not an easy thing. They discuss the
 > problems in the forum, perhaps you can find useful leads there:
 > <http://www.accessifyforum.com/viewforum.php?f=10&sid=df14ea6f305988651a31a651c88fabee>.
 >
 >
 > Matthias

thanks for the link, I see the issues they are discussing are the same
that I have encountered (and are driving me up the wall).

The user requirements are for an accessible forum and an accessible
admin area. Still after a brief glance it looks like the phpBB may
have some merit in adaptation.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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On 26 Sep 2003 04:09:35 -0700 lurchlurch.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com (Lurch) broke
off from drinking a cup of tea at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://groups.google.com/" target="_blank">http://groups.google.com/</a> to write:

 >www@probertencyclopaedia.com (Matt Probert) wrote in message news:<3f73e0b5.1166046.TakeThisOut@news.ntlworld.com>...
  >> On 25 Sep 2003 12:53:01 -0700 lurchlurch.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com (Lurch) broke
  >> off from drinking a cup of tea at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://groups.google.com/" target="_blank">http://groups.google.com/</a> to write:
  >>
   >> >Having used Snitz as my forum software of choice on several sites I'm
   >> >concerned about the lack of accessibility.
   >> >
   >> >I have a number of sites that have an accessibilty theme and are WAI
   >> >WCAG P2, use validated XHTML 1.0 Strict and CSS.
  >>
  >> Yes. But are they accessible?
  >>
  >> Matt
 >
 >Yes Matt they are accessible and have been user tested by a varity of
 >Visually impaired users using a range of Assistive Technologies
 >alongside groups of dyslexic users.
 >
 >they are as accessible as I can make them but experience shows that
 >you'll never get a site to be accessible to everyone. P2 is achievable
 >(as oppsoed to P3 which will never be fully acheivable) and using
 >XHTML assists in meeting the lower level checkpoints and validated
 >grammar is the only way forward, but the user tesing is the most
 >valuable indicator. As you are aware the WCAG Priotities are only
 >guidelines and the neurocognitive issues left out by Section 508 (to
 >allow easy mechanistic testing of pages) are probably the most
 >important checkpoints to consider.
 >
 >There are a number of problems with WCAG. for instance I have spent
 >many a happy hour produced shortcut keys only to find out that nearly
 >all the shortcut keys clash with the functionlity of at least one AT
 >package.
 >
 >I have yet to see a forum that is accessible, the predominant use of
 >tables excludes a lot of users and if you are using AT it can make
 >live rather tedious.

So far, ouch!

 >
 >I see your point about "is it accessible". The number of sites I see
 >with a bloody "Bobby" logo or even the RNIB "See it right" logo that
 >dont actually work or allow the user to scale the text using the
 >browser drives me up the wall. And of course it appears that most web
 >design agencys are now accessibility "experts", with SENDA and DDA at
 >the front of alot of minds there is a lot of money to be made but
 >buying a copy of bobby and slamming logos on a page does not make it
 >acessible.
 >

Ah so now you get what I meant. I wasn't trying to put you down, I
was, well you know exactly what I mean.

<g>

Matt

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